Future Tech: Space Has a Ground Floor?
The Mentor Program will be hosting a panel, "Future Tech: Space Has a Ground Floor?", on Sunday, October 8, 2017, at 8PM Central Daylight Time.
Probable topics are likely to include: the Four C's and other fundamental community conventions (and apparent hurdles), designing worlds and star systems (both in a star-state and as the part of a P2TM game), creating a star-state itself (with a focus on government, society, and culture), the positives and negatives of playing as humans (or close-to), the positives and negatives to designing (and playing) alien sophonts, as well as the differences and commonalities of FT between N&I and P2TM. This panel will, in general, be focused on serving as an introduction to players looking to get involved in Future Tech, how to get started in Future Tech, as well as answering some pertinent questions from the NationStates roleplaying community about the tech-level in general.
Please note: while there are similarities between Future Tech in N&I and P2TM, there are also fundamental differences. These will be addressed as warranted and necessary during the discussion of panel topics. We ask for our audience to be patient and to respect these variances in the context they are provided. Please begin devising your questions now; they may be submitted (and appended with the Moderator's name) once the #questions_chamber is opened several days before the panel.
Date & Time: Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 8PM Central Daylight Time (9PM Eastern/6PM Pacific)
Presented By: NS Mentor Program and other Community Contributors
Moderator: Kyrusia
Featuring: Kyrusia, Santh, Lubyak, FRFS, Sunset, G-Tech, and Eluvatar
Hosted by the NS Mentor Discord Server.
[8:00 PM] Kyrusia: First and foremost: welcome everyone. If you'd please take a moment to introduce yourselves, that'd be appreciated. At least one of our participants may be a bit delayed, so don't be astonished if someone jumps-in bit late.
[8:00 PM] Kyrusia: For those who don't know, I'm Kyrusia. Mentor Program Overseer, Senior Game Mod for NS, and an N&I RP Mentor specializing in Future Tech. I'm also an Operator for the NSFT Discord (which you can find linked in the #directory). I'll be the moderator for this panel, though I will also probably be chiming in from time-to-time.
A simple reminder: ping me (Kyrusia #5940) in the #questions_chamber to submit a question. Not all questions may be asked; it will depend on the topics of the panel, direction, and flow. Similarly, please take all general discussion involving the panel to the #ns_mentors discussion channel. This panel will last 1.5 to 2 hours, depending on activity, availability, and panelist inclination. Logs will be made available at some point after this panel is completed within the next week, at the latest.
Similar with the Symposium and other panels, disruptive behavior will result in a Muting for the duration of the panel (or longer) at the server staff and panel moderator's discretion.
[8:00 PM] FRFS: Greetings everyone, I'm obv FRFS and I am a FT player.
[8:01 PM] Sunset: Hi FRFS! I'm Sunset, an FT player and NS&II Mentor and I too am an addict. I'm current on week three, so...
[8:01 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Hello. I'm Santh(eres) and I play FT, MT, PMT... whatever I can so long as I don't have to post often. I especially like making FT aliens
[8:03 PM] Lubyak: Hey everyone, I'm Lubyak. I play mostly FT and FanT.
[8:03 PM] Eluvatar: Hi, I'm Eluvatar. I've also posted as Zemnaya Svoboda and The NeoSindar. I started, in retrospect, as an MT player but in 2006 I was turned into more of a GP player (though I continued to participate in regional ~MT RP). More recently I've started delving into FT with the NeoSindar and planning for other RPing. I'm also a site admin.
[8:03 PM] Kyrusia: Question No. 1: What do you think is the most important concept to grasp when you first decide to become involved in Future Tech? Understand, these may be different between N&I and P2TM.
[8:04 PM] Eluvatar: Q1 My perspective may be off, but the way I've internalized it: It's not a game. It's rarely improvised. It's collaborative storytelling.
By "It's not a game" I mean that there is no way to win, to dominate at FT. You write on your own, or you write together, but you don't "win."
Similarly, improvisation is rare, I think, because players tend only to participate in stories they want to tell, which usually means they have some idea of where they're going.
It's about telling a story together, not so much playing the role(s) and competing.(edited)
[8:04 PM] Eluvatar: IN SPACE
[8:07 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Q1 You are not a superpower, and never will be. That doesn't mean you can't be equal to everyone else, but it does mean that you need to adjust expectations for the fact that everyone is - unless they agree to be lesser - on equal footing. That and carbon copying from media is boring; we've seen a thousand Imperiums of Men, so if you don't establish yours as more than just GW lore, it'll be really hard to tell you apart from the other 999
[8:07 PM] FRFS: Q1: For me, I'd have to say the scale at which you are playing. No longer is this a single nation on a planet full of nations, the scale has increased tremendously. It can take some getting used to, since working at this scale has it's own challanges and nuances. Aspects like the military or the economy of you nation may simply just be scaled up to the appropriate size with an inflation of numbers. But other aspects like how your people communicate across the stars, cannot be simply 'bumped up' modern day ways.
[8:11 PM] FRFS: Q1: Scope would be another one. How your nation operates day to day versus how your people operate day to day. At one level you're looking at national happenings, how your nation works with other nations and works within itself. And at another level you're looking at how the average everyday citizen goes about his or her life. Having a varying scope on your nation I feel is critical for the FT setting.
[8:12 PM] Sunset: Q1: This just happens to touch on the latest thought that's been tumbling around in my head; Can you write it? In FT, we often say that things like 'Clunk to Sleek' or 'Hard or Soft Realism' are window dressing. I honestly do believe this to be true: The stories we tell can be told regardless of the dressing on the windows. Certainly FT/MT/FanT give some... Magic Wands to alter the way the story is told, or put a particular twist on it. But I think we often forget what lays beyond the window dressing and that is the window itself. We as writers are the glazer; We are offering our window on a universe we create. We - and including me - need to made sure that the window and then the dressing we present is something that we can present. A cloudy or broken window that no one can see through will do them no good - nor ourselves. So make sure you can write it, no matter what the genre. Write, write, and write some more.
[8:13 PM] Kyrusia: Question No. 2: From Tawks:
How exactly is FT tech determined?
Are FT nation RPs or character RPs more common/which is recommended?
If not FTL how come aliens?
Difference between FTL/FT?
[8:13 PM] Kyrusia: Q2: 1) FT is generally defined as any tech/continuity which takes place/exists beyond the moment FTL travel is developed; there are some situational caveats, such as uplifting, of course.
2) I'd say FT, vs. MT, focuses more on characters at a thread-level, with the nation taking the form as a setting, backdrop, or broader background machination. It'll depend on the nature of the RP, however; though I will say most Mentors tend to recommend, even for war-based roleplays, to play it at the squad level, with the larger conflict acting as a backdrop.
3) Usually aliens require FTL, spare in specific threads in MT and PMT - on average - or tech-mixing.
4) This largely dates back to a time when FT was more "space tech." Aside from situational caveats and player self-determination, Future Tech in N&I has a base expectation of faster-than-light travel as a narrative tool and "ceiling" for Post-Modern Tech.
[8:14 PM] Sunset: Q2: As to whether FTL is absolutely needed... I'd say no. But what is required is the ability to communicate with that other entity that considers itself 'FT'.
[8:16 PM] Sunset: If one were to play a nation of space hobos riding the interstellar rails they would still be FT hobos, as long as they are interacting with other FT players/civilizations.
[8:16 PM] Kyrusia: Such a situational caveat. ...Now I can't help but imagine space trains though. With space hobos. And space hobo starsigns. Graffiti everywhere. And murder. Lots of murder.
[8:17 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Q2 1) yeah, pretty much just FTL. I've seen some people try to say that's not necessarily true, that they are pre-FTL FT but they also disappear quickly from lack of ability to interact. And of course, there are always exceptions but these are very few and far between. A nation of hobos riding the interstellar rails of other nations still have FTL. They don't personally operate it, but they are using it.
2) I play FT and MT the same way: the nations are settings for characters and events to occur within and around. They're more than a backdrop, but they are not the main actors. They're not actors at all except when referencing what's happening in the background of a more personal event.(edited)
[8:17 PM] Sunset: Well, that's what D&D is... Murder Hobos.
[8:17 PM] FRFS: Q2: The usage of FTL is usually the jumping off point to being labeled FT. Everything before that point falls into PMT and lesser tech levels. In FT both nation based and character based RPs exist, whether one is more common over the other, I don't know. But both have their advantages in telling the story.
[8:19 PM] Eluvatar: Q2 FT most typically involves a degree of "space opera". This implies FTL. I think however that FTL is not definitional to FT: it's definitional that you accept others' FT if you want to RP with them, but FT does not expect your nation to be using any particular technologies.
I'm not completely sure what's meant by nation RP. If RP without characters is meant, then that is (as far as I know) practically unheard of. If it means RP of foreign relations, international politics, and even war, then that has been done. It is unwise to limit yourself to it however.
You can have aliens without FTL easily enough, but I don't think it's often done for reasons of convenience: it's convenient to be able to have quick interaction with any character as needed.
I'm not sure what the last subquestion is asking. Hopefully my comments above have adequately shown my perspective, such as it is.
[8:20 PM] Kyrusia: Question No. 3: How did you become involved in FT? From your experience, what is something you could tell others that might help them?
[8:23 PM] Eluvatar: Q3 I was helpfully pointed to #NSLegion on the Esper.net IRC after I mentioned my intentions to do the NeoSindar on a regional IRC channel. It led to quite a bit of reading of various guides and many a conversation, and eventually a little bit of RPing on my part. In my experience, the best part of FT is the community, which is most easily accessible through instant message venues. I imagine the FT discord is the best place to go for that today. People tend to be willing to shoot the breeze and give advice, which is always helpful.
[8:24 PM] FRFS: Q3: For myself, FT has been the only thing I've involved myself with on NS. I've never dived into any of the other tech levels or GP, etc. It's really the only level of RP I like. As for how I ended up liking FT itself? Well you can blame Halo for that. For help? Well there are several "regions" that are FT based, The Local Cluster being one of them. As well as the FutureTech Discord, that's probably your best bet for any advice or help outside of this panel.(edited)
[8:24 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Q3 I was bored with MT and started a puppet and played for a couple years I think as that puppet. Mostly one-off RPs with other newish people who posted a couple times and bailed forever.
I entered the IRC channel NSLegion a few times as that puppet and mostly only talked to people who are no longer really around. Then, my longest FT RP suddenly died and I went back to being myself. I started one nation - the Prelation - which garnered no interest for a reason I still do not know. Then I started the United Dominion, made a species of space!newts, and every time I thought "I don't think anyone is interested", Kyrusia told me he'd kill me if I quit. So, I didn't.
I'm still here, in fear of Kyru's retribution(edited)
[8:25 PM] Kyrusia: I will neither confirm nor deny. :stuck_out_tongue:
[8:25 PM] G-Tech: Q3: Honestly, some of the first FT RP I got involved in was the beginning of my NS experience. I came in raring and ready to go with a backlog of Stargate, Star Trek, and all that good stuff in my brain. I wasn't one of those lads that did MT first and then came to FT. As for helping folks with getting involved- just make sure you keep those lines of communication open. There are other people you are writing with, and making sure they know what is going on and what you mean to do is the wisest effort you can make in the FT community.
[8:26 PM] Sunset: Ooo, story time. Excuse me while I settle back in my rocking chair... Chance, actually. When I created Sunset, I was looking for a region and just happened to pick Mars. There were no Martians at that time, so it was just me for a couple days and then a few others drifted in. Then someone - I believe it was a certain Centipede - dropped by to inform us that Melkor was attacking Mars. 'What?' I asked; Raiding was hardly a thing back in those days so the idea of someone attacking something was... What? Scolo's answer drew me to the forums and there I found myself, writing out a terrible post in response to Melkor Unchained's attempt to conquer Mars.
[8:26 PM] Eluvatar: Melkor tried to conquer Mars?
[8:26 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: I played with a lot of Star Trek Federation nations as my first FT puppet - they all quit after three or four posts. I suspect they were all the same person coming back with a new nation each time.
[8:27 PM] Sunset: Sure. Back in the day, everyone tried to conquer Mars.
[8:27 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: That was even true in MT. Everyone wanted to colonize Mars first since everyone had moon bases
[8:27 PM] Kyrusia: Anyone who's anyone obv. tried to conquer Mars.
[8:28 PM] G-Tech: I still have a fondness for that level of terrible RPing, where people have one post each on the forums and no idea what is going on, and regularly can't even log back in on their same old account to continue writing. They were glorious clusterducks.
[8:28 PM] Eluvatar: Is that MT or PMT?
[8:28 PM] Kyrusia: Always found Saturn more interesting, personally...
[8:30 PM] Sunset: As to my advise; Use all the tools you have. Discord, IRC, Factbooks, Forum posts... Whatever draws your interest. Being a successful FT/P2TM RPer is all about enthusiasm. If your enthusiasm is writing factbooks, do it. Indulge in it. We can encourage the 4 C's all we like but if you don't love what you're doing, you'll drift away. Find what you love doing and use that as your gateway to everything and everyone else.
[8:30 PM] Sunset: You know we own Saturn, right? Yut-Space since... Forever.
[8:31 PM] G-Tech: @eluvatar A good question. Most folks would be on the fence about moon bases, because theoretically they could have been done in our lifetime. Mars looks firmly PMT though- though over my time here on NS it has slowly drifted towards MT.
[8:31 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: I completely missed the part where they asked for advice. For the sake of brevity, I concur with Sunset.
[8:31 PM] Kyrusia: Sunset Clearly I need a Fractal Sol question. :stuck_out_tongue:
[8:31 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: But also, 4Cs are critical. They're not FT advice. They're general writing advice. Especially the whole consistency thing.
[8:32 PM] Sunset: @g-Tech I'd put a 'The Martian' style Mars base as solidly MT now, within the NS MT definition of MT.
[8:32 PM] Kyrusia: Question No. 4: From Ched: "What are some obvious trappings in having a FT nation because they're FT? Do you feel any clear limits on where to go with your FT stuff?"
[8:33 PM] Sunset: Q4: No. And I think that's the wonderful thing about FT. There is no off-limits. You can always go backwards.
[8:33 PM] Eluvatar: Q4 The limit is what your writing friends will accept. If it makes for a story they want to participate in, it's fine. If it's power wank... it's not.(edited)
[8:34 PM] Sunset: True. There's one of those rules... Something about if a topic heading asks a question then the answer is always 'No'. Forget who's rule it is.
[8:35 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Q4 FTL and an understanding that even with FTL, space is vast - those are the main points.
Limits? I put limits on myself; I don't feel them from the community. Part of collaboration and being consistent is making sure you're able to be collaborative and you're working within whatever limits you are setting for yourself. So, no limit on creativity per se, but it should be self-limiting such that you can write a believable nation/setting that can interact well with its neighbors, whoever they are.(edited)
[8:35 PM] G-Tech: Q4: Hmm, this is a knotty question. I've seen folks with FT tech that didn't have FTL, but the community is usually pretty clear on that detail; FT involves spaceboats, and almost universally an ability to send those spaceboats across the universe faster than light. Unless you're one of those STL weirdos, obviously (definitely didn't enjoy STL RPs back in the day, nope nope). As for limits? Just talk with your mates. Some FT RPs are limited to a system, some a universe, some a multiverse. Go as far as you want and feel you can handle, as long as your fellow writers are down with it.
[8:35 PM] Sunset: But if you ever ask 'Is this too powerful' then the answer isn't 'Yes' but rather 'You shouldn't be asking that question.' Asking that question, to me, means that your head isn't in the Collaborative/Cooperative space.
[8:35 PM] Eluvatar: I actually disagree with that.
[8:36 PM] Eluvatar: I think that it's a useful question, mainly for introspection.
[8:36 PM] Eluvatar: But a better question might be "Would I want to play with someone doing this?"
[8:36 PM] FRFS: Q4: As far as "limits", there are only those imposed by the community your in, and what you, yourself, want to limit as well. The community you engage with may have limits on certain things, and those should be very clear and concise with all members of the community. Like for my nation I limit certain techs, energy based weaponry and 'faster' FTL as well as a variety of others. I just rather not deal with the technologies or write about them.
[8:37 PM] G-Tech: I concur with Eluvatar. There are circumstances in FT where you should definitely ask that question, especially when building plot-superweapons and the like. Sometimes blatantly overpowered ships/weapons/etc. can serve a valuable role in a story, if handled correctly, and making them just ridiculous enough without breaking someone's suspension of disbelief is very important.
[8:38 PM] Kyrusia: G-Tech hits on my personal recommendation: immersion. If it breaks my suspension of disbelief - and I have a fairly (compared to some) loose one - is my breaking point.
[8:39 PM] G-Tech: I should note, such concerns are especially necessary in P2TM FT RP, where most people build their characters/nations to the setting, instead of importing existing concepts or canon. Setting the "setting power level" is very important to determining whether we are writing the War in Heaven or Firefly. And asking "is this too powerful for setting X I am trying to make" is absolutely important.
[8:39 PM] Sunset: I'd agree with that. It is, as Kyr points out obliquely, a wavering line. Even sometimes within the same RP .
[8:40 PM] Eluvatar: I would add however that trying to come up with the most powerful thing that your friends will accept is rather missing the point.
[8:41 PM] G-Tech: Indeed. Powergaming is not a valid reason for asking yourself if something is too wanky.
[8:41 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: quite, and I have had to try talking people down from that. When you're approaching the problem from the direction of "how powerful can I make myself?" you're already in violation of some pretty basic tenets of collaborative RP
[8:41 PM] Sunset: @g-Tech See, I'm an old-school tabletop player. The idea of asking is a little weird from that perspective because tabletop RP (sometimes) has a lot of rules that are designed to keep 'power levels' within a certain range.
[8:42 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Sunset Clearly you haven't played Mutants and Masterminds
[8:42 PM] G-Tech: Sunset : I totally hear that! Most folks might not know this, but I'm notorious in P2TM for slapping together "mechanics-based" roleplays, which revolve around a consistent if adaptable system to determine RPing results. But most freeform FT RP doesn't follow those restrictions.
[8:43 PM] Sunset: santh "Hooligan" Eres Nope. Palladium's Heroes Unlimited was my foray into that genre. A little bit of Exalted (Whitewolf) as well.
[8:44 PM] Kyrusia: SOL INVICTUS!
[8:44 PM] Kyrusia: coughs.
[8:44 PM] G-Tech: Exalted, of course, is the best example of very low-power high-restriction roleplaying
[8:44 PM] G-Tech: coughs
[8:44 PM] Kyrusia: Question No. 5: From Jutomi: "Is it possible to have FT worlds interracting in any way with less advanced civilizations(like those in PMT, MT, PT, etc)?" Hints at previous questions here, but a good question to ask head-on.
[8:45 PM] Kyrusia: Q5: Yes, though it usually qualifies as tech-mixing. Some people do this regularly; some people consider it verboten. It has been abused by less experienced FTers in the past, so some have a sour view of it due to that as well. It'll ultimately depend on if you and your roleplay partners can pull it off (and want to do it) without it becoming a woeful wankfest.
Personal opinion here? I don't tech-mix. Best I get is some FanT in my FT ala Clarke's Third Law. But that's just my personal opinion. If I wanted to RP in MT, I'd still be in MT.
That being said: again, uplifting is a thing. As is assimilating/conquering space civilizations of lower levels in advancement. It's a trope throughout sci-fi, not just on NS. I, again personally, have no real qualms with that aspect, but I view that as distinct from tech-mixing. Call it a weird line that others may not see, if so inclined.
[8:46 PM] G-Tech: Q5: Absolutely- though you'll want to talk very carefully with your RP partners about what is and isn't alright to do in the roleplay (don't: summon clone army from offscreen planet, do: have Prime Directive to justify limited FT interference).
[8:46 PM] Eluvatar: Q5 I think that any RP that has an FT nation in it is an FT RP. This an quickly turn a non-FT nation in an FT RP into an FT nation. Whether or not it adapts FT technology is unrelated: it's part of the web of stories in which FT exists.(edited)
[8:46 PM] Sunset: Q5: Yes, and I have, and loved it. Part of the occasional 'In Case of Emergency...' introductory/casual RP series where the player finds an escape pod, opens it, and three random (Sunset) aliens pop out. I've had a lot of MT/FanT/PT people find one and it was always fun.
[8:46 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Q5 For sure, as long as everyone agrees. I don't personally like tech mixing with other player tech levels, myself. Not sure why, really - I just don't have fun with it.
I will, however, introduce plenty of NPC civilizations that are not advanced, for a variety of purposes. In fact, one of the United Dominion's key traits is that they uplift or advance other civs on a semi-regular and (to outsiders) uncontrolled basis(edited)
[8:48 PM] Sunset: To ride along with what others were saying though; There was pretty strict controls in place. All electronics were fried, it was just three random aliens and other than alien-ness they didn't have anything but their wits to work with.
[8:48 PM] G-Tech: Indeed, Santh, the interaction between FT civilizations and non-FT civilizations is a very important part of most FT settings; how a nation interacts with "primitives" can often be a useful vehicle for illustrating moral or social facets of the "higher" civilization that wouldn't otherwise be illuminated.
[8:48 PM] Eluvatar: In that case I imagine that becomes an FT nation participating, loosely, in MT RP. Which leaves the MT nation an MT nation.
[8:49 PM] FRFS: Q5: It can occur as long as the parties involved have good communication between one another in what they are trying to accomplish, I'm sure an MT player and an FT player can tell an interesting story within a thread with each other. Just depends on what the story is, and how the players go about it. As well as the fact of FT nations interacting with lower tier NPC nations as Santh alluded to with his United Dominon and their penchant for uplifting other civilizations.
[8:50 PM] G-Tech: A good case that comes to mind, Eluvatar, was one of my older II RPs where there was a civil war going on in an MT nation bordering on PMT, but I personally participated as a single alien figure from my FT civ that was the only alien presence on the planet.
[8:50 PM] G-Tech: At the OP's discretion, of course, but it added a very interesting subplot to the bogstandard warfare in the MT universe.
The Mentor Program will be hosting a panel, "Future Tech: Space Has a Ground Floor?", on Sunday, October 8, 2017, at 8PM Central Daylight Time.
Probable topics are likely to include: the Four C's and other fundamental community conventions (and apparent hurdles), designing worlds and star systems (both in a star-state and as the part of a P2TM game), creating a star-state itself (with a focus on government, society, and culture), the positives and negatives of playing as humans (or close-to), the positives and negatives to designing (and playing) alien sophonts, as well as the differences and commonalities of FT between N&I and P2TM. This panel will, in general, be focused on serving as an introduction to players looking to get involved in Future Tech, how to get started in Future Tech, as well as answering some pertinent questions from the NationStates roleplaying community about the tech-level in general.
Please note: while there are similarities between Future Tech in N&I and P2TM, there are also fundamental differences. These will be addressed as warranted and necessary during the discussion of panel topics. We ask for our audience to be patient and to respect these variances in the context they are provided. Please begin devising your questions now; they may be submitted (and appended with the Moderator's name) once the #questions_chamber is opened several days before the panel.
Date & Time: Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 8PM Central Daylight Time (9PM Eastern/6PM Pacific)
Presented By: NS Mentor Program and other Community Contributors
Moderator: Kyrusia
Featuring: Kyrusia, Santh, Lubyak, FRFS, Sunset, G-Tech, and Eluvatar
Hosted by the NS Mentor Discord Server.
[8:00 PM] Kyrusia: First and foremost: welcome everyone. If you'd please take a moment to introduce yourselves, that'd be appreciated. At least one of our participants may be a bit delayed, so don't be astonished if someone jumps-in bit late.
[8:00 PM] Kyrusia: For those who don't know, I'm Kyrusia. Mentor Program Overseer, Senior Game Mod for NS, and an N&I RP Mentor specializing in Future Tech. I'm also an Operator for the NSFT Discord (which you can find linked in the #directory). I'll be the moderator for this panel, though I will also probably be chiming in from time-to-time.
A simple reminder: ping me (Kyrusia #5940) in the #questions_chamber to submit a question. Not all questions may be asked; it will depend on the topics of the panel, direction, and flow. Similarly, please take all general discussion involving the panel to the #ns_mentors discussion channel. This panel will last 1.5 to 2 hours, depending on activity, availability, and panelist inclination. Logs will be made available at some point after this panel is completed within the next week, at the latest.
Similar with the Symposium and other panels, disruptive behavior will result in a Muting for the duration of the panel (or longer) at the server staff and panel moderator's discretion.
[8:00 PM] FRFS: Greetings everyone, I'm obv FRFS and I am a FT player.
[8:01 PM] Sunset: Hi FRFS! I'm Sunset, an FT player and NS&II Mentor and I too am an addict. I'm current on week three, so...
[8:01 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Hello. I'm Santh(eres) and I play FT, MT, PMT... whatever I can so long as I don't have to post often. I especially like making FT aliens
[8:03 PM] Lubyak: Hey everyone, I'm Lubyak. I play mostly FT and FanT.
[8:03 PM] Eluvatar: Hi, I'm Eluvatar. I've also posted as Zemnaya Svoboda and The NeoSindar. I started, in retrospect, as an MT player but in 2006 I was turned into more of a GP player (though I continued to participate in regional ~MT RP). More recently I've started delving into FT with the NeoSindar and planning for other RPing. I'm also a site admin.
[8:03 PM] Kyrusia: Question No. 1: What do you think is the most important concept to grasp when you first decide to become involved in Future Tech? Understand, these may be different between N&I and P2TM.
[8:04 PM] Eluvatar: Q1 My perspective may be off, but the way I've internalized it: It's not a game. It's rarely improvised. It's collaborative storytelling.
By "It's not a game" I mean that there is no way to win, to dominate at FT. You write on your own, or you write together, but you don't "win."
Similarly, improvisation is rare, I think, because players tend only to participate in stories they want to tell, which usually means they have some idea of where they're going.
It's about telling a story together, not so much playing the role(s) and competing.(edited)
[8:04 PM] Eluvatar: IN SPACE
[8:07 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Q1 You are not a superpower, and never will be. That doesn't mean you can't be equal to everyone else, but it does mean that you need to adjust expectations for the fact that everyone is - unless they agree to be lesser - on equal footing. That and carbon copying from media is boring; we've seen a thousand Imperiums of Men, so if you don't establish yours as more than just GW lore, it'll be really hard to tell you apart from the other 999
[8:07 PM] FRFS: Q1: For me, I'd have to say the scale at which you are playing. No longer is this a single nation on a planet full of nations, the scale has increased tremendously. It can take some getting used to, since working at this scale has it's own challanges and nuances. Aspects like the military or the economy of you nation may simply just be scaled up to the appropriate size with an inflation of numbers. But other aspects like how your people communicate across the stars, cannot be simply 'bumped up' modern day ways.
[8:11 PM] FRFS: Q1: Scope would be another one. How your nation operates day to day versus how your people operate day to day. At one level you're looking at national happenings, how your nation works with other nations and works within itself. And at another level you're looking at how the average everyday citizen goes about his or her life. Having a varying scope on your nation I feel is critical for the FT setting.
[8:12 PM] Sunset: Q1: This just happens to touch on the latest thought that's been tumbling around in my head; Can you write it? In FT, we often say that things like 'Clunk to Sleek' or 'Hard or Soft Realism' are window dressing. I honestly do believe this to be true: The stories we tell can be told regardless of the dressing on the windows. Certainly FT/MT/FanT give some... Magic Wands to alter the way the story is told, or put a particular twist on it. But I think we often forget what lays beyond the window dressing and that is the window itself. We as writers are the glazer; We are offering our window on a universe we create. We - and including me - need to made sure that the window and then the dressing we present is something that we can present. A cloudy or broken window that no one can see through will do them no good - nor ourselves. So make sure you can write it, no matter what the genre. Write, write, and write some more.
[8:13 PM] Kyrusia: Question No. 2: From Tawks:
How exactly is FT tech determined?
Are FT nation RPs or character RPs more common/which is recommended?
If not FTL how come aliens?
Difference between FTL/FT?
[8:13 PM] Kyrusia: Q2: 1) FT is generally defined as any tech/continuity which takes place/exists beyond the moment FTL travel is developed; there are some situational caveats, such as uplifting, of course.
2) I'd say FT, vs. MT, focuses more on characters at a thread-level, with the nation taking the form as a setting, backdrop, or broader background machination. It'll depend on the nature of the RP, however; though I will say most Mentors tend to recommend, even for war-based roleplays, to play it at the squad level, with the larger conflict acting as a backdrop.
3) Usually aliens require FTL, spare in specific threads in MT and PMT - on average - or tech-mixing.
4) This largely dates back to a time when FT was more "space tech." Aside from situational caveats and player self-determination, Future Tech in N&I has a base expectation of faster-than-light travel as a narrative tool and "ceiling" for Post-Modern Tech.
[8:14 PM] Sunset: Q2: As to whether FTL is absolutely needed... I'd say no. But what is required is the ability to communicate with that other entity that considers itself 'FT'.
[8:16 PM] Sunset: If one were to play a nation of space hobos riding the interstellar rails they would still be FT hobos, as long as they are interacting with other FT players/civilizations.
[8:16 PM] Kyrusia: Such a situational caveat. ...Now I can't help but imagine space trains though. With space hobos. And space hobo starsigns. Graffiti everywhere. And murder. Lots of murder.
[8:17 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Q2 1) yeah, pretty much just FTL. I've seen some people try to say that's not necessarily true, that they are pre-FTL FT but they also disappear quickly from lack of ability to interact. And of course, there are always exceptions but these are very few and far between. A nation of hobos riding the interstellar rails of other nations still have FTL. They don't personally operate it, but they are using it.
2) I play FT and MT the same way: the nations are settings for characters and events to occur within and around. They're more than a backdrop, but they are not the main actors. They're not actors at all except when referencing what's happening in the background of a more personal event.(edited)
[8:17 PM] Sunset: Well, that's what D&D is... Murder Hobos.
[8:17 PM] FRFS: Q2: The usage of FTL is usually the jumping off point to being labeled FT. Everything before that point falls into PMT and lesser tech levels. In FT both nation based and character based RPs exist, whether one is more common over the other, I don't know. But both have their advantages in telling the story.
[8:19 PM] Eluvatar: Q2 FT most typically involves a degree of "space opera". This implies FTL. I think however that FTL is not definitional to FT: it's definitional that you accept others' FT if you want to RP with them, but FT does not expect your nation to be using any particular technologies.
I'm not completely sure what's meant by nation RP. If RP without characters is meant, then that is (as far as I know) practically unheard of. If it means RP of foreign relations, international politics, and even war, then that has been done. It is unwise to limit yourself to it however.
You can have aliens without FTL easily enough, but I don't think it's often done for reasons of convenience: it's convenient to be able to have quick interaction with any character as needed.
I'm not sure what the last subquestion is asking. Hopefully my comments above have adequately shown my perspective, such as it is.
[8:20 PM] Kyrusia: Question No. 3: How did you become involved in FT? From your experience, what is something you could tell others that might help them?
[8:23 PM] Eluvatar: Q3 I was helpfully pointed to #NSLegion on the Esper.net IRC after I mentioned my intentions to do the NeoSindar on a regional IRC channel. It led to quite a bit of reading of various guides and many a conversation, and eventually a little bit of RPing on my part. In my experience, the best part of FT is the community, which is most easily accessible through instant message venues. I imagine the FT discord is the best place to go for that today. People tend to be willing to shoot the breeze and give advice, which is always helpful.
[8:24 PM] FRFS: Q3: For myself, FT has been the only thing I've involved myself with on NS. I've never dived into any of the other tech levels or GP, etc. It's really the only level of RP I like. As for how I ended up liking FT itself? Well you can blame Halo for that. For help? Well there are several "regions" that are FT based, The Local Cluster being one of them. As well as the FutureTech Discord, that's probably your best bet for any advice or help outside of this panel.(edited)
[8:24 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Q3 I was bored with MT and started a puppet and played for a couple years I think as that puppet. Mostly one-off RPs with other newish people who posted a couple times and bailed forever.
I entered the IRC channel NSLegion a few times as that puppet and mostly only talked to people who are no longer really around. Then, my longest FT RP suddenly died and I went back to being myself. I started one nation - the Prelation - which garnered no interest for a reason I still do not know. Then I started the United Dominion, made a species of space!newts, and every time I thought "I don't think anyone is interested", Kyrusia told me he'd kill me if I quit. So, I didn't.
I'm still here, in fear of Kyru's retribution(edited)
[8:25 PM] Kyrusia: I will neither confirm nor deny. :stuck_out_tongue:
[8:25 PM] G-Tech: Q3: Honestly, some of the first FT RP I got involved in was the beginning of my NS experience. I came in raring and ready to go with a backlog of Stargate, Star Trek, and all that good stuff in my brain. I wasn't one of those lads that did MT first and then came to FT. As for helping folks with getting involved- just make sure you keep those lines of communication open. There are other people you are writing with, and making sure they know what is going on and what you mean to do is the wisest effort you can make in the FT community.
[8:26 PM] Sunset: Ooo, story time. Excuse me while I settle back in my rocking chair... Chance, actually. When I created Sunset, I was looking for a region and just happened to pick Mars. There were no Martians at that time, so it was just me for a couple days and then a few others drifted in. Then someone - I believe it was a certain Centipede - dropped by to inform us that Melkor was attacking Mars. 'What?' I asked; Raiding was hardly a thing back in those days so the idea of someone attacking something was... What? Scolo's answer drew me to the forums and there I found myself, writing out a terrible post in response to Melkor Unchained's attempt to conquer Mars.
[8:26 PM] Eluvatar: Melkor tried to conquer Mars?
[8:26 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: I played with a lot of Star Trek Federation nations as my first FT puppet - they all quit after three or four posts. I suspect they were all the same person coming back with a new nation each time.
[8:27 PM] Sunset: Sure. Back in the day, everyone tried to conquer Mars.
[8:27 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: That was even true in MT. Everyone wanted to colonize Mars first since everyone had moon bases
[8:27 PM] Kyrusia: Anyone who's anyone obv. tried to conquer Mars.
[8:28 PM] G-Tech: I still have a fondness for that level of terrible RPing, where people have one post each on the forums and no idea what is going on, and regularly can't even log back in on their same old account to continue writing. They were glorious clusterducks.
[8:28 PM] Eluvatar: Is that MT or PMT?
[8:28 PM] Kyrusia: Always found Saturn more interesting, personally...
[8:30 PM] Sunset: As to my advise; Use all the tools you have. Discord, IRC, Factbooks, Forum posts... Whatever draws your interest. Being a successful FT/P2TM RPer is all about enthusiasm. If your enthusiasm is writing factbooks, do it. Indulge in it. We can encourage the 4 C's all we like but if you don't love what you're doing, you'll drift away. Find what you love doing and use that as your gateway to everything and everyone else.
[8:30 PM] Sunset: You know we own Saturn, right? Yut-Space since... Forever.
[8:31 PM] G-Tech: @eluvatar A good question. Most folks would be on the fence about moon bases, because theoretically they could have been done in our lifetime. Mars looks firmly PMT though- though over my time here on NS it has slowly drifted towards MT.
[8:31 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: I completely missed the part where they asked for advice. For the sake of brevity, I concur with Sunset.
[8:31 PM] Kyrusia: Sunset Clearly I need a Fractal Sol question. :stuck_out_tongue:
[8:31 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: But also, 4Cs are critical. They're not FT advice. They're general writing advice. Especially the whole consistency thing.
[8:32 PM] Sunset: @g-Tech I'd put a 'The Martian' style Mars base as solidly MT now, within the NS MT definition of MT.
[8:32 PM] Kyrusia: Question No. 4: From Ched: "What are some obvious trappings in having a FT nation because they're FT? Do you feel any clear limits on where to go with your FT stuff?"
[8:33 PM] Sunset: Q4: No. And I think that's the wonderful thing about FT. There is no off-limits. You can always go backwards.
[8:33 PM] Eluvatar: Q4 The limit is what your writing friends will accept. If it makes for a story they want to participate in, it's fine. If it's power wank... it's not.(edited)
[8:34 PM] Sunset: True. There's one of those rules... Something about if a topic heading asks a question then the answer is always 'No'. Forget who's rule it is.
[8:35 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Q4 FTL and an understanding that even with FTL, space is vast - those are the main points.
Limits? I put limits on myself; I don't feel them from the community. Part of collaboration and being consistent is making sure you're able to be collaborative and you're working within whatever limits you are setting for yourself. So, no limit on creativity per se, but it should be self-limiting such that you can write a believable nation/setting that can interact well with its neighbors, whoever they are.(edited)
[8:35 PM] G-Tech: Q4: Hmm, this is a knotty question. I've seen folks with FT tech that didn't have FTL, but the community is usually pretty clear on that detail; FT involves spaceboats, and almost universally an ability to send those spaceboats across the universe faster than light. Unless you're one of those STL weirdos, obviously (definitely didn't enjoy STL RPs back in the day, nope nope). As for limits? Just talk with your mates. Some FT RPs are limited to a system, some a universe, some a multiverse. Go as far as you want and feel you can handle, as long as your fellow writers are down with it.
[8:35 PM] Sunset: But if you ever ask 'Is this too powerful' then the answer isn't 'Yes' but rather 'You shouldn't be asking that question.' Asking that question, to me, means that your head isn't in the Collaborative/Cooperative space.
[8:35 PM] Eluvatar: I actually disagree with that.
[8:36 PM] Eluvatar: I think that it's a useful question, mainly for introspection.
[8:36 PM] Eluvatar: But a better question might be "Would I want to play with someone doing this?"
[8:36 PM] FRFS: Q4: As far as "limits", there are only those imposed by the community your in, and what you, yourself, want to limit as well. The community you engage with may have limits on certain things, and those should be very clear and concise with all members of the community. Like for my nation I limit certain techs, energy based weaponry and 'faster' FTL as well as a variety of others. I just rather not deal with the technologies or write about them.
[8:37 PM] G-Tech: I concur with Eluvatar. There are circumstances in FT where you should definitely ask that question, especially when building plot-superweapons and the like. Sometimes blatantly overpowered ships/weapons/etc. can serve a valuable role in a story, if handled correctly, and making them just ridiculous enough without breaking someone's suspension of disbelief is very important.
[8:38 PM] Kyrusia: G-Tech hits on my personal recommendation: immersion. If it breaks my suspension of disbelief - and I have a fairly (compared to some) loose one - is my breaking point.
[8:39 PM] G-Tech: I should note, such concerns are especially necessary in P2TM FT RP, where most people build their characters/nations to the setting, instead of importing existing concepts or canon. Setting the "setting power level" is very important to determining whether we are writing the War in Heaven or Firefly. And asking "is this too powerful for setting X I am trying to make" is absolutely important.
[8:39 PM] Sunset: I'd agree with that. It is, as Kyr points out obliquely, a wavering line. Even sometimes within the same RP .
[8:40 PM] Eluvatar: I would add however that trying to come up with the most powerful thing that your friends will accept is rather missing the point.
[8:41 PM] G-Tech: Indeed. Powergaming is not a valid reason for asking yourself if something is too wanky.
[8:41 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: quite, and I have had to try talking people down from that. When you're approaching the problem from the direction of "how powerful can I make myself?" you're already in violation of some pretty basic tenets of collaborative RP
[8:41 PM] Sunset: @g-Tech See, I'm an old-school tabletop player. The idea of asking is a little weird from that perspective because tabletop RP (sometimes) has a lot of rules that are designed to keep 'power levels' within a certain range.
[8:42 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Sunset Clearly you haven't played Mutants and Masterminds
[8:42 PM] G-Tech: Sunset : I totally hear that! Most folks might not know this, but I'm notorious in P2TM for slapping together "mechanics-based" roleplays, which revolve around a consistent if adaptable system to determine RPing results. But most freeform FT RP doesn't follow those restrictions.
[8:43 PM] Sunset: santh "Hooligan" Eres Nope. Palladium's Heroes Unlimited was my foray into that genre. A little bit of Exalted (Whitewolf) as well.
[8:44 PM] Kyrusia: SOL INVICTUS!
[8:44 PM] Kyrusia: coughs.
[8:44 PM] G-Tech: Exalted, of course, is the best example of very low-power high-restriction roleplaying
[8:44 PM] G-Tech: coughs
[8:44 PM] Kyrusia: Question No. 5: From Jutomi: "Is it possible to have FT worlds interracting in any way with less advanced civilizations(like those in PMT, MT, PT, etc)?" Hints at previous questions here, but a good question to ask head-on.
[8:45 PM] Kyrusia: Q5: Yes, though it usually qualifies as tech-mixing. Some people do this regularly; some people consider it verboten. It has been abused by less experienced FTers in the past, so some have a sour view of it due to that as well. It'll ultimately depend on if you and your roleplay partners can pull it off (and want to do it) without it becoming a woeful wankfest.
Personal opinion here? I don't tech-mix. Best I get is some FanT in my FT ala Clarke's Third Law. But that's just my personal opinion. If I wanted to RP in MT, I'd still be in MT.
That being said: again, uplifting is a thing. As is assimilating/conquering space civilizations of lower levels in advancement. It's a trope throughout sci-fi, not just on NS. I, again personally, have no real qualms with that aspect, but I view that as distinct from tech-mixing. Call it a weird line that others may not see, if so inclined.
[8:46 PM] G-Tech: Q5: Absolutely- though you'll want to talk very carefully with your RP partners about what is and isn't alright to do in the roleplay (don't: summon clone army from offscreen planet, do: have Prime Directive to justify limited FT interference).
[8:46 PM] Eluvatar: Q5 I think that any RP that has an FT nation in it is an FT RP. This an quickly turn a non-FT nation in an FT RP into an FT nation. Whether or not it adapts FT technology is unrelated: it's part of the web of stories in which FT exists.(edited)
[8:46 PM] Sunset: Q5: Yes, and I have, and loved it. Part of the occasional 'In Case of Emergency...' introductory/casual RP series where the player finds an escape pod, opens it, and three random (Sunset) aliens pop out. I've had a lot of MT/FanT/PT people find one and it was always fun.
[8:46 PM] Santh "Hooligan" Eres: Q5 For sure, as long as everyone agrees. I don't personally like tech mixing with other player tech levels, myself. Not sure why, really - I just don't have fun with it.
I will, however, introduce plenty of NPC civilizations that are not advanced, for a variety of purposes. In fact, one of the United Dominion's key traits is that they uplift or advance other civs on a semi-regular and (to outsiders) uncontrolled basis(edited)
[8:48 PM] Sunset: To ride along with what others were saying though; There was pretty strict controls in place. All electronics were fried, it was just three random aliens and other than alien-ness they didn't have anything but their wits to work with.
[8:48 PM] G-Tech: Indeed, Santh, the interaction between FT civilizations and non-FT civilizations is a very important part of most FT settings; how a nation interacts with "primitives" can often be a useful vehicle for illustrating moral or social facets of the "higher" civilization that wouldn't otherwise be illuminated.
[8:48 PM] Eluvatar: In that case I imagine that becomes an FT nation participating, loosely, in MT RP. Which leaves the MT nation an MT nation.
[8:49 PM] FRFS: Q5: It can occur as long as the parties involved have good communication between one another in what they are trying to accomplish, I'm sure an MT player and an FT player can tell an interesting story within a thread with each other. Just depends on what the story is, and how the players go about it. As well as the fact of FT nations interacting with lower tier NPC nations as Santh alluded to with his United Dominon and their penchant for uplifting other civilizations.
[8:50 PM] G-Tech: A good case that comes to mind, Eluvatar, was one of my older II RPs where there was a civil war going on in an MT nation bordering on PMT, but I personally participated as a single alien figure from my FT civ that was the only alien presence on the planet.
[8:50 PM] G-Tech: At the OP's discretion, of course, but it added a very interesting subplot to the bogstandard warfare in the MT universe.