Swith's Informal Morning Panel and Coffee Klatsch
Sponsored by the NationStates Mentor Program
and
Overgoat Coffee Brands™ - Bleating away your sleep one bean at a time.
The hell did you all do to my set? Heathens!
*stumbles over passed-out Mentor*
Beer pong? Srsly?
*kicks empty bottles under couch*
Grrrr. That better be the remains of a water balloon.
*brushes bottle caps from desk*
*taps papers into a neat pile*
Oh, lord. What in the hell? Oh for fuck’s sake!
*covers sleeping Kyru with blanket*
Oh wait, wasn’t I here last night? I- I can’t remember…
*cameraman frantically waves* “Swith! We’re live in 3… 2…
**NS Roleplay Symposium 2017**
LOCATION: Symposium Hall
TOPIC: "Writing, Exposition, and the Narrative (Early Hour)”
TIME: 12 PM EST, Thursday, July 13th
Good morning! Welcome to Swith's Informal Morning Panel and Coffee Klatsch (Sponsored by the NationStates Mentor Program and Overgoat Coffee Brands™ - ’Bleating away your sleep one bean at a time!’)
I’m Swith, your panel moderator/talk show host. As this is an early morning session, we may not have many panelists or guests. As we did yesterday, we’ll make this informal.
This morning’s topic, “Writing, Exposition, and the Narrative”, is fairly straight-forward.
Panellists, please introduce yourselves and tell us which subforum you haunt, as well as your favorite morning beverage.
BEGIN
::
Zark - Today at 9:01 AM
hi, I'm Zark, and I'm literally dead right now
chocolate milk and P2TM
in that order
Gren - Today at 9:01 AM
I'm Gren, from P2TM, and my favorite morning beverage is hair of the dog that bit you.
FRFS - Today at 9:01 AM
Goodmorning everyone, I'm FRFS. 'Furfus' incase you had no idea how to pronounce my name over the last few days.
Agy - Today at 9:02 AM
Hi, I'm Agy. I'm barely alive, mostly shambling flesh and metal.
I haunt P2TM and I enjoy coffee with cream and sugar.
Swith - Today at 9:02 AM
Welcome, all. Have some coffee! Let's get the toughest question knocked out early, ladies and gentlemen.
Question One "What are the fundamentals of a narrative?"
Gren - Today at 9:02 AM
Didn't we knock that one out the other day?
Agy - Today at 9:03 AM
Think so, you want us to just copy-paste or...
Swith - Today at 9:03 AM
Yes, and you can use your own words or steal Gio's.
Agy - Today at 9:03 AM
will do
Question 1: A narrative has a beginning, middle, and end, centered around a conflict with identifiable characters.
In short, if you can imagine it as some kind of film or tv piece, it's probably got the basic structure of a narrative.
Zark - Today at 9:03 AM
setting, structure (start, climax, end) and conflict, basically
Gren - Today at 9:04 AM
Q1: A narrative has a beginning, a middle, and an end, and conflict.
Zark - Today at 9:04 AM
oh yeah, characters
Swith - Today at 9:04 AM
Mainly this is an overview to establish what narrative is. Many of our guests are unfamiliar with the term itself, and what it entails.
FRFS - Today at 9:04 AM
Narrative! Another word for story! It's a series of connected events that occur within a setting, populated by characters that experience these events.
Zark - Today at 9:04 AM
almost forget about those
Gren - Today at 9:04 AM
Characters not necessary.
They're an unnecessary frivolity.
Just like wings on a plane.
FRFS - Today at 9:04 AM
Isn't that heresy for you P2TMers?
Zark - Today at 9:05 AM
let's get rid of the narrator too while we're at it
Gren - Today at 9:05 AM
Swith - Today at 9:05 AM
Ched - who hasn't missed a panel yet! - would like to know,
"Does narrative in RP games differ from other mediums like film or television?" That's our Question 2.
Zark - Today at 9:06 AM
I guess you could say it differs in the way it's created and presented, but it still contains all the fundamentals of a narrative, obviously
FRFS - Today at 9:06 AM
Q2: It does in the respect that this is entirely text based. We don't have the luxury of visual clues, or inherent body language. We have to literally "spell out" everything with words.
Swith - Today at 9:06 AM
We don't realize it's a narrative, of course, as much exposition is played out through action. But if you think about roleplay as theatre, you have the first scene which establishes elements and characters, and the scenes (and acts) play out to fit the rest of the narrative formula.
Gren - Today at 9:07 AM
Q2: In style, yes, but not in form.
Also, Ched, how many questions is this for you?
FRFS - Today at 9:07 AM
Two more and he gets a cookie.
Agy - Today at 9:07 AM
Question 2: Yes indeed!
Narratives in RPs have similar trappings - tropes, character archetypes, and plot points - to other mediums BUT they lack the visual and auditory cues of film and television.
To this end, narratives in RP games require much stronger raw writing since there's no sound or lighting to get across tone or meaning in the scene. You need to be able to get across sensations via text, which requires a careful understanding of how people process and visualize environments.
Zark - Today at 9:08 AM
also you have to deal with other people
but then, that's one of the charms of RPing
Gren - Today at 9:08 AM
OTHER PEOPLE! THE HORROR!
Zark - Today at 9:09 AM
hell is other people nods
Agy - Today at 9:09 AM
"Hell is other people-" Damn, ninja'd
Zark - Today at 9:09 AM
ha!
Swith - Today at 9:09 AM
Ched - who I'm tempted to mask as a panelist so he can ask you all in person - follows this up with,
"Since conflict is necessary to have in order to have a compelling story, are their certain times in an RP where conflict isn't that needed? Or in contrast, would be desperately needed at the right time to add to the game's story?" Question Three
FRFS - Today at 9:09 AM
Tbh, I kinda look at RPing as the 'storyboard' level of like a movie, or TV series. Where all the writers get together and hash out the movie or TV series. It's a very similar process.
Zark - Today at 9:09 AM
[sic]
Gren - Today at 9:10 AM
Non-stop conflict is like non-stop running. It gets tiring quickly.
Zark - Today at 9:10 AM
anyway, I think there is always an overarching conflict in a roleplay, and in that sense it is always there, but there are definitely moments where it need not be present to the characters (think, for instance, of the rare few moments where people get to unwind and relax)
it is there, it did not cease to exist
but attention is taken away from it for a moment
Agy - Today at 9:11 AM
Question 3: Yes, constant conflict can cause fatigue in the audience and the players participating in the roleplay.
You need downtime - though it doesn't have to be boring, characters can still be doing things and you could be on the way to another conflict - in order for players and characters to rest and take in what just happened. Characters, to evolve and change, need time to process and reflect on what is happening to them. Players and your audience need time to rest to reflect on what just happened in the story.
Swith - Today at 9:12 AM
Yes, we need lows in our games. It allows players to breathe. It allows characters to reflect. If the game is all at one level, it gets dull.
FRFS that's a good example!
FRFS - Today at 9:12 AM
Q3: Conflict in an RP shouldn't feel forced. If you're trying to shoe-horn in a conflict into a particular part of the story, you should probably leave it out. If it doesn't fit with what the characters are experiencing at the given moment, it shouldn't be written. There should be ups and downs to your story, almost like riding a rollercoaster. Where you peak at certain moments where conflict and tension are greatest, and then you even out and smooth sail through other parts.
Gren - Today at 9:13 AM
Just like life.
FRFS - Today at 9:14 AM
That is why planning out your story is crucial to getting it told correctly. I've spent months hashing out a story before it even begins to get told on the forums.
Gren - Today at 9:14 AM
I've been working on one idea for my ES character for 2 years.
Swith - Today at 9:14 AM
Alright, so what do you tend to do when you're at an intentional or unintentional lull? "Chat" is the bane of roleplay, if the conversations don't actually contribute to the story, and players tend to fall back on cheap entertainment, such as flirting. But are there other ways a player can occupy their minds and characters when nothing major is going on? ( Question Four )
Gren - Today at 9:14 AM
Just to get it right.
Zark - Today at 9:15 AM
Well, instead of chatting with someone else, they could reflect on what has happened lately, perhaps even a soliloquy, as long as it doesn't drag out
there could also be some actual relationship-building (not necessarily romantic either), be it through meaningful conversation or performing whatever activities
Gren - Today at 9:16 AM
Q4: Show them in their off time. Not necessarily chatting, but doing something extracirricular.
Zark - Today at 9:16 AM
a character could cultivate a hobby or, if in a more action-oriented roleplay, attempt to improve his abilities
there's a myriad of things you can do, really
Agy - Today at 9:17 AM
Question 4: Lulls are a great time for character to be introspective.
I notice a lot of times that players (including myself) put in complex introspection during serious action sequences. That's kind of silly, given that characters often have little, if any, time to react beyond actually physically responding to what's going on.
Such introspection should occur both internally and in conversation between characters during these lulls. Perhaps have the characters doing this while cultivating a favorite hobby of theirs, as Zark said, or taking an evening out to socialize with others.
FRFS - Today at 9:17 AM
Q4: Self-improvement comes to mind first. And that can be done in two ways. Your character having a moment where they become "better" at something on their own independent of everyone else, while there is a lull in the story. OR it's time for yourself to become better, and world build. Whenever I find a lull in a story, or waiting on someone to post, I dive back into wordlbuilding. And then sooner or later, it becomes my turn to post again.
Swith - Today at 9:18 AM
If I know there's going to be a long break in action (waiting on players to finish up their elements), and I'm able to spend some time in conversation, I grab someone and we work on character development. Agy and I are famous (or infamous) for that. We'll have our characters hash out backhistory between them, if there's conflict, or discuss their thoughts on what's happened so far and what they plan to do next. It's conversation woven with physical activity, but it doesn't advance the setting's time too much.
Agy - Today at 9:18 AM
Yep. Lets us get things done and provide something interesting to read while the plot's lulled for a moment, since we're not gonna be doing that when it's full speed ahead.
Swith - Today at 9:18 AM
This usually happens in the "bullpen", or in a place where the overarching story's action won't affect them too much, if at all.
So how do you all balance the importance of quality writing versus the importance of simply having fun in the context of RPing? ( Question Five )
Zark - Today at 9:20 AM
I'll sit this one out
Swith - Today at 9:20 AM
Zarkers, you're the one that slipped the question to me when Kyru wasn't watching!
Zark - Today at 9:21 AM
but Swith
Kyru's always watching
Swith - Today at 9:21 AM
Gren - Today at 9:21 AM
He sees you when you're creeping, he knows when you're a flake...
FRFS - Today at 9:22 AM
Q5: That's really going to depend on who you're RPing with. Knowing how your partners want to RP is crucial to knowing if your posts should be heavy on the quality or small spurts of fun.
Agy - Today at 9:22 AM
Question 5: I feel like those two qualities play off of each other. If the writing quality of posts in an RP isn't that great, it's a lot less enjoyable for those involved and for your audience than if the quality is better, obviously.
But perhaps more salient, if you're not having fun in the context of RPing, then the quality of your writing is probably degrading even if you don't particularly notice it. People love to bring up the trope of artists suffering for their work, but that's a very overplayed trope and, to be perfectly frank, only works with real anguish. Boredom, frustration, and tedium do not make works of art. They make slogs that not only subject the writer to something horrible, but the audience and the writer's collaborators as well.
Have fun, first and foremost. You'll find that quality naturally lends itself to having fun and gravitate toward that if you like writing. And if you don't, well, there's plenty of other hobbies in the world.
Gren - Today at 9:22 AM
Q5: I agree with FRFS.
Swith - Today at 9:24 AM
What I ask players to consider is whether or not their fun is trifling? Does it pertain to the story? Does it take your character out-of-character? If you're doing "fun" because you're bored, go work on your other roleplay games' posts. Don't advance the IC just to amuse yourself. Make each post - even fun stuff - contribute towards the story itself, or towards character development.
Agy - Today at 9:25 AM
That's also a good point, Swith. Fun isn't necessarily the be-all, end-all if it impedes the enjoyment of others and lessens the impact of the story as a whole.
Maltropia - Today at 9:26 AM
I just want to add on Q5: Sometimes you hit a bit of writer's block in a certain thread, and going off to one side and writing something different and new, just for fun, can be a good way to overcome that.
FRFS - Today at 9:26 AM
Also you should be enjoying it regardless. >__> Whether you're someone who spits out a detailed glorified post. Or brings together a nice and concise post. It should be fun.
Gren - Today at 9:27 AM
NO FUN ALLOWED
FRFS - Today at 9:27 AM
I'd also like to point out, that both styles of post creation can work together as well.
Swith - Today at 9:27 AM
Even a snowball fight helps establish or strengthen bonds between characters. Continuity is key here. If the snowball fight is just something to blitz post, never to be reflected on again, it's trivial and unnecessary.
In that context, the Ambassador from Swith Witherward might pelt the Ambassador from Agymnum with a snowball (on the sly) while walking to an embassy lunch. The two know each other. One wags a finger at the other. Though it doesn't pertain to nation politics, it's a bit of diplomatic familiarity between characters.
FRFS - Today at 9:27 AM
They are not exclusive to one another. It may take a bit of work to have them flow correctly, but it is not impossible.
Swith - Today at 9:28 AM
Ched would like to know,
"What are some things you do to get the creative juices flowing when you're writing exposition or narrative? What's your process?" ( Question Six )
FRFS - Today at 9:28 AM
I CANNOT LET MY SECRETS BE KNOWN
Zark - Today at 9:29 AM
my process is to grow so frustrated at my short attention span and fidgetting that I glue my eyes to the post screen, frankly
Gren - Today at 9:29 AM
Get myself into my character's head. Its kind of like slipping into power armor.
Its almost like a trance.
Swith - Today at 9:29 AM
Music sometimes sets the mood for me (FFS, don't link your song in your IC post!) I might take a break and watch a movie scene to get into an 'adrenaline moment', and then write out my battle scene.
FRFS - Today at 9:29 AM
Q6: Music and/or white noise I find out helps a lot. A lot of the time I'll put my headphones on a pull up a "10 hour rainstorm" on Youtube and just get lost.
Agy - Today at 9:30 AM
Question 6: Process media. Watch your favorite episodes of TV shows or online content. Watch your favorite movies. Read your favorite books.
Or watch/read something new. Engage your mind with interesting stories and you'll pull yourself out of a slump in no time.
Alternatively, if you need immediate creative juices and can't spare a few hours, try asking your fellow players if they can help. Bounce ideas off of them and get their input, it can often help you see things from a new perspective and generate ideas for your post.
Gren - Today at 9:30 AM
Yeah, music helps a lot. Not necessarily white noise, at least for me.
Swith - Today at 9:30 AM
White noise is an excellent way to focus.
Zark - Today at 9:30 AM
music is great for writing, yeah
not so great for reading, if it's imposed by the person who wrote what you're reading
FRFS - Today at 9:30 AM
Sometimes with music I get too into it, and I focus on the music more than the writing. So white noise is better for me.
Agy - Today at 9:30 AM
Music is very helpful, though I find that the music often ends up setting the mood for me rather than me deciding the music based on my current mood
FRFS - Today at 9:31 AM
Hit that shuffle button and let it rideeee
Gren - Today at 9:31 AM
You've gotta find the music that serves as your character's theme, I guess.
I find that helps get me into the trance.
Swith - Today at 9:32 AM
Sometimes we work on a post for hours only to have players gloss over all the details and elements, or not even react to them! Their post is short and shallow. This is a depressing feeling for many roleplayers. How do you deal with this, when it happens to you, both OOC and IC as well as emotionally? (Question Seven )
Gren - Today at 9:34 AM
Q7: Go on a murderous rampage.
Zark - Today at 9:34 AM
my natural apathy is very helpful on this, I usually don't find myself too heartbroken over it (though I can't recall it happening too often, either). if the other person got some details wrong, I'll point it out; if it was just an overall lack of attention, I might make an offhanded comment on the OOC (not a rude one, mind) and leave it at that; if it disrupts what I can do IC, though, I'll also point it out
granted, that's as a player, as an OP I have more of a responsibility to enforce that players pay attention to each other
not to mention, as an OP, any details you might give out can and be used against players nods
Swith - Today at 9:35 AM
Although I shouldn't take things so seriously, I've actually had one game where my post - vital to the damn story, as I was the GM - was all but ignored. The player posted two lines, one that was the character scratching her cheek, and then a short bit of unrelated dialog to her companion about something. I sat there, stunned, as the other players followed that player's lead... and then I had a brief cry. (This was a training roleplay, of course.)
Agy - Today at 9:36 AM
Question 7: I try not to take it too personally and learn from it.
OOC-wise, if it's only a few players, I try to gently prod and ask if maybe they're missing something from my post, or point out details I think are key to respond to so they can flesh out their own. It's not a huge deal and everyone has off days, so I don't think it should be treated as a problem.
Now, if a MAJORITY of players are giving me short responses, I would be more inclined to look at my own post and try and view it from their perspective. Perhaps it isn't as clear as I thought it was or I didn't leave enough room for response and had my characters chewing the scenery rather than providing meaningful interaction for other player characters. I think there's something to be said for understanding that, if everyone thinks you're wrong or isn't taking you seriously, perhaps you should check yourself before others.
IC-wise, if this goes on for some time, I'll generally have my characters begin to take advantage of it to rouse other players into paying more attention. If it just happens now and again, however, I don't mind. People zone out IRL, it's not that huge a deal.
FRFS - Today at 9:36 AM
Q7: You just have to find out if you really want to continue with that individual or not. Not everyone is going to find the same enjoyment as you do in what you write. Sometimes you find conflicting styles of RP, especially on an open board forum like NS. And you do your best in a nice and courteous manner to bring it up to the individual and see if changes can be made.
Swith - Today at 9:36 AM
Zark passes another note
Question Eight is, "What's your favorite time of the day for writing?"
Gren - Today at 9:37 AM
Q8: Night, when I'm less likely to be bothered.
Zark - Today at 9:37 AM
I know I asked, but since it's such a mundane question I'll answer anyway
Swith - Today at 9:37 AM
Night for me, too. Sometimes, if it's a lengthy narrative, I'll sit down early in the morning and let the peace and quiet in the house motivate me.
Zark - Today at 9:38 AM
pretty much agree with Gren, though my family has become more nocturnal as of late, so I find that the few times I'm up early before everyone else is also a great time for writing
Agy - Today at 9:38 AM
Question 8: Night. I'm more awake, nobody bothers me, and there's something about the deathly quiet and crickets that helps get my creativity running.
FRFS - Today at 9:39 AM
Q8: Funny enough, my ideas usually come to me when I'm doing other things. So my note app on my phone is where most of my ideas for writing come into fruition. A few of my stories I've actually written soley on my phone.
Swith - Today at 9:39 AM
Ched would like to know,
"As more of a followup to question 7, what's a pet peeve you have with exposition or narrative done incorrectly, or certain responses you find with other players responding to your or other people's stuff (no specifics needed)?" ( Question Nine )
Zark - Today at 9:40 AM
for the first? text walls, they're eye-numbing
Swith - Today at 9:41 AM
I have two pet peeves: 1. Please don't give me a wall of text. I hate reading them, especially if they contain no vital details or give me anything to work off of.
A text wall is a huge block that caters to the writer (or GM's) whim. The very last paragraph might pertain to my character. Otherwise, the entire upper portion is dry dialog between NPC followed by them doing something in front of my character, followed by more dry dialog. Monotonous.
Agy - Today at 9:41 AM
Question 9: Definitely gonna concur with Zark on text-walls for exposition or narratives. They're difficult to read, they don't add anything that couldn't be added with a few separate paragraphs, and they indicate to me a horrible understanding about writing quantity, that "more is better" no matter if it's being enjoyed.
Response-wise, I hate when players shoot back with rapid one-liners. Paragraphs give me more to work off of, and I don't want to be hovering over the thread all day just trying to get one scene finished.
Swith - Today at 9:42 AM
My second pet peeve is dialog without indication.
"What's that?" Mary asks.
"Something."
"Oh?"
"Yeah, it looks like this. Nobody knows who you're talking to, and you lose track of who is saying what. There's no line breaks either."
"Well, shit, I guess you're right!"
FRFS - Today at 9:43 AM
Not being consistent. I'm a big stickler for things not changing within a single post, without having a large event occur to be the catalyst for that change.
Swith - Today at 9:44 AM
FRFS I suppose that depends on the situation? As a GM, I'll wrap up one element, then add some spaces and usher in a new. So we transition seamlessly via a single post, moving from a building, crossing the road, and entering a tavern in one swoop.
Gren - Today at 9:44 AM
Q9: I don't like text walls, either. Paragraphs. They were invented for a reason.
FRFS - Today at 9:45 AM
Swith, I meant more along the lines of character's emotions changing, or plot changes.
Swith - Today at 9:45 AM
Thanks for the clarification, FRFS.
Yes, I agree on that one.
Ched asks, "Have you ever set a personal challenge to yourself when writing something? Like writing something in a way you haven't tried before, or setting yourself in a contrasting mood to what you're writing? Or something else entirely?" ( Question Ten )
Zark - Today at 9:47 AM
writing at all is my personal challenge
Gren - Today at 9:47 AM
^
Zark - Today at 9:47 AM
jokes aside (though I was only half-joking), I do sometimes try to vary my writing style a little, when I'm feeling particularly confident or have time to spare or whatnot
Agy - Today at 9:48 AM
Question 10: Writing a lot of the interactions Septimus had with Neste were definitely something I set up as a bit of a personal challenge.
I wanted to avoid all the trappings of a sappy or oversexualized romance and, having never seriously dated myself, it proved quite difficult.
That being said, I think the results speak for themselves, whether I succeeded or failed
Swith - Today at 9:48 AM
I have my own "voice", or writing style, but I'll occasionally try out something new, just to see if it blends with my own.
Gren - Today at 9:48 AM
I don't think many people seriously date themselves, Agy.
Swith - Today at 9:49 AM
Septimus and Neste won "P2TM Best Romance" two years in a row, IIRC.
Zark - Today at 9:49 AM
showoff
Agy - Today at 9:49 AM
True, Gren, but imagine how introspective and considerate people would be if they did!
Maltropia - Today at 9:50 AM
I usually have one of two styles when I write - either academic/Tolkienesque-literary, or flippant. A while ago, for an NS Sports thing, I wrote a series of tabloid articles following my country's team through a football tournament. It was an interesting challenge - especially since I neither read tabloids nor watch football.
Swith - Today at 9:50 AM
struts
It was difficult to write, however. It pushed me to think of things from other angles, as both weren't mundane humans and both came from different "alien" backgrounds.
FRFS - Today at 9:50 AM
Q10: That's exactly what I'm engaging in now with a shift to more character focused level of writing. It's something that I never put much focus on in the past. Also I view jumping into other genres as a challange as well. "Horror" is something that I have tried once or twice here and there in some stories on NS, but it's still something I struggle with to create an atmosphere and level of tension appropriate for a horror story.
Agy - Today at 9:50 AM
Yeah but you know those awards are "popularity contests" so
Swith - Today at 9:51 AM
"How does one effectively write body language, emotion, and other nuances of a character?", Storm asked earlier. ( Question Eleven )
Agy - Today at 9:51 AM
Question 9: Be aware of yourself and of others in real life.
Look at how other people react to things, watch films with nuanced acting if you don't have the time or inclination to be a people-watcher.
Look at the small details that change when they're surprised, angry, note how their stance shifts when they feel attacked or welcome. These are the kinds of details you can inject into your post to convey a character without straight-out telling us.
Compare: "Keith was angry; how dare they accuse him of theft?!" with "Keith gripped his knuckles tightly against the armrest. His eyes narrowed and his voice trembled, 'What do you mean by that?'"
Zark - Today at 9:51 AM
dat c/p
Agy - Today at 9:51 AM
i mean, i thought it explained well enough
FRFS - Today at 9:52 AM
His fingers are like little tornados moving across the keyboard.
Swith - Today at 9:52 AM
LMAO
Zark - Today at 9:52 AM
but yeah, to quote Hibria: "Stare at yourself, the power can be found!"
with a little remembrance and introspection you can likely find tons of resources to draw upon at the moment of detailing a character's body language and whatnot
I do somewhat struggle with describing a character's voice and manner of speech, personally
Swith - Today at 9:53 AM
Alright, Zark passed another note.
This one covers something we all groan over, regardless of where we haunt. "What are y'all's thoughts about shipping?" ( Question 12 )
As a writer, I hate shallow romance. I hate reading "puts his hand on her knee" indicators that the story is about to go F7 on us.
FRFS - Today at 9:53 AM
Q11: You just have to be super literal and spell it out. I'd place myself in the situation that my character is facing and just list all the ways I could physically react to the situation. My weight shifts from one foot to the other, my breathing slows, a fist slowly clenches. Etc.
Gren - Today at 9:54 AM
Q12: I find its a good thing to joke about in the OOC.
FRFS - Today at 9:55 AM
Q12: Always be comfortable with what you are doing. That's all the advice I can really offer on that. Be safe, and be comfortable.
Swith - Today at 9:55 AM
It's a balance between you and your character, too. Be careful here. As you write, make sure you keep in mind that you can't live vicariously through that character. You want to put emotion into it, and look at long term goals for the story, but you don't want to fall "in love" (or crush) on the other character or writer, personally.
Agy - Today at 9:55 AM
Question 12: Much like any other vice, can and should be indulged in carefully and with great consideration for the consequences.
Romance brings out different behaviors and character traits in people, just like any other situation, and you need to weigh whether this makes sense for the story and for the characters involved.
Similar to how it would be inappropriate for someone's close friend to start beating them up out of nowhere, it would also be inappropriate for two strangers to "hit it off" during a natural disaster. That sort of nonsense belongs in porn, not in NS roleplay.
Zark - Today at 9:56 AM
lovely example
Gren - Today at 9:56 AM
"I know the tornado just wiped out your house, I insist on you sleeping in my bed tonight."
Swith - Today at 9:56 AM
Ched asks,
"When you click submit on a post, do you ever feel any initial doubt about its quality, even after inspecting it thoroughly? Like do you feel nervous before the first responses come in, or even after they start arriving?" ( Question Thirteen )
Zark - Today at 9:57 AM
oh god, yes
Swith - Today at 9:57 AM
Yes, in a nutshell.
Gren - Today at 9:57 AM
I do.
Agy - Today at 9:57 AM
All the time.
Zark - Today at 9:57 AM
but I feel like that's because I'm just a wallflower in general
Agy - Today at 9:57 AM
Literally with almost every post I make that's not exposition
FRFS - Today at 9:57 AM
Being nervous is good!
Zark - Today at 9:57 AM
that said, a person usually has a bad time gauging their own progress and quality, so I feel this sort of thing is normal
FRFS - Today at 9:57 AM
It's a good feeling to be nervous about what you're presenting. It means you like it :3
And if you like what you wrote, others will too
Swith - Today at 9:58 AM
I doubt myself, I worry I'll look stupid, and I cringe as I read it the next day and find all sorts of typos and misused words. (An after-affect of medical brain fog.) Sometimes what I think looks good actually looks... well... lame in afterthought.
Agy - Today at 9:59 AM
Oh that's definitely the worst, finding out that what you thought was a dramatic or interesting moment came across to everyone else as overplayed or whiny
xP
Zark - Today at 9:59 AM
that really does suck
Swith - Today at 9:59 AM
Eridani, having found the coffee table and then a seat, asks, "How do you stop yourself from writing the "same" basic character over and over again?" ( Question Fourteen )
Zark - Today at 9:59 AM
contrast, basically
Agy - Today at 10:00 AM
I'm gonna defer since Sep and Temir and co are basically the same dude and I actually need this answered
Zark - Today at 10:00 AM
let's say you know what this base is like
Gren - Today at 10:00 AM
I'm going to defer as well. I've only written 3 original characters.
Zark - Today at 10:00 AM
try to change one detail at its core and see how the rest unfolds from there
by exploring the various ways your base can differ through such changes I'm sure you will end up with characters that are actually quite different from one another
Swith - Today at 10:03 AM
I fall into that trap all the time.
What I do is push myself to write what I don't already know. I spend time researching the background, and ways to change up behavior patterns I'm overly familiar with. I play an opposite gender to switch up behaviors.
But I also leave much to chance. Once that character is introduced, the story will impact it. The key is to keep continuity for that character. My Minerva might grit her teeth and push through a crisis. My Myra, who is in the same scene, might recoil and scramble out of Minerva's way. Minerva is strong, a leader, and comes across as very self-assured much of the time (though she doubts herself often). Myra is timid, and doesn't feel she has much to offer anyone (though she knows, deep down, she is strong and brave).
Zark - Today at 10:03 AM
apologies if I'm being cryptic, by the way, sleep deprivation
Swith - Today at 10:03 AM
Zark, we're all in that state, I fear.
FRFS - Today at 10:04 AM
Q14: We write what we experience for the most part. You just have to be very concious about how you build you characters. And notice similar traits or thought process developing while you're creating him/her. If you recongize them during the creative process, you can alter as needed. "Hey so and so thinks very similarly to my last character", and you can adjust them as needed. And a lot of times, especially with my characters, they are molded by the setting and plot around them. So if you're involving yourself in different settings/plots, your characters have a great chance at not being the same again and again.
Swith - Today at 10:05 AM
Also, if you and a player - in my case, Agy - tend to write well together, and you find your characters are always falling into the same pattern, find ways to work together to break that habit. Have your characters in a new game disagree or be at odds for a change.
FRFS - Today at 10:05 AM
Oh that's a good point
Agy - Today at 10:05 AM
Good point, you can change up characters by changing up the roles they play.
Swith - Today at 10:05 AM
Exactly.
Gren asks,
for Question Fifteen , "What's your take on recycling characters?"
Gren - Today at 10:06 AM
I, of course, will take a knee for this one.
Zark - Today at 10:07 AM
as long as the character's adapted to the setting, I'm cool with it, I do it semi-often
it would hardly be fair to say that you're absolutely not allowed to continue exploring the possibilities of a character you poured lots of effort on just because a roleplay died
Agy - Today at 10:08 AM
Question 15: Much like recycling waste, generally a good idea.
However, when recycling characters, one must always keep in mind that the character you're recycling was designed for a specific roleplay. And it's recycling, not straight-up reusing, so you should make edits to the recycled character to suit the new roleplay they're going to be participating in.
Don't recycle characters into roleplays they're inappropriate for, but consider using them as inspiration if recycling is not possible or overly-difficult. For example, I took a lot of inspiration for Temir from Septimus despite the two characters having wildly-different backgrounds and thus straight recycling not being appropriate for the roleplay Temir was in (Postapocalyptia).
Swith - Today at 10:08 AM
Don't. Yes, you can, if that character is NOT in play anywhere else. However, your old RP might not meld well with the new game. History and background might not mix well. You steal from your established character by stripping away the history that caused its development. This applies mainly to P2TM, where RP are encapsulated universes. Diplomacy in N&I is different, of course, and characters are reused for that purpose.
If you're bringing that character intact to a new game (such as ones where characters come in from any dimension), it can work.
FRFS - Today at 10:08 AM
Q15: All characters serve a purpose within a plot. As long as that plot still provides something, there isn't a reason to shutter the character.
Swith - Today at 10:09 AM
Instead, reinvent the character. Give them a new name, a new background to match the game's setting. This way, you have a reason for the character to grow in a different direction.
FRFS - Today at 10:10 AM
Oh yes, please keep your character consistent. Especially if you're going to keep the same name and what not.
Swith - Today at 10:10 AM
Question Sixteen comes from Ched,
"On the flip side to Eridani's question, do you ever worry you'll make your character(s) too strange, alien, or exotic, to be related to by your readers or even yourself?"
Zark - Today at 10:10 AM
not really, mostly because I don't like those
Gren - Today at 10:11 AM
Q16: Sometimes, but I generally make sure to give my characters a personality trait from myself, to give them at least some bit of familiarity.
I know if I can get into my character's head, I can write them decently.
Agy - Today at 10:12 AM
Question 16: Not particularly.
Your character comes from you, and so it's kind of difficult to make a character even you can't relate to. And since you're a person, assuming your audience isn't totally the opposite from you, to an extent they should be able to relate as well.
The only way I can see this happening is if you don't take a character seriously, like if you just make them into a caricature of a group or person you don't particularly like or know much about. But if you know a little about what you're talking about and can empathize with your character even a small degree, I think there will be relatability built into the character.
Swith - Today at 10:13 AM
I play aliens and fantasy beasts pretty heavily. For fantasy beasts, people are already familiar with the concepts. A talking dragon? Sure, seen that. A grumpy harpy? Yes, seen that too.
Aliens should be alien. That's the whole point. I start mine of as curious, mostly, and they struggle a bit with interaction. They place different values on things. For example, genocide is a humane way to purge the galaxy of trifling species, for the Nifid. It has never been considered evil, simply because their history never had a situation where their society itself judged it as evil.
FRFS - Today at 10:13 AM
Q16: That happens sometimes in FT, people go for a concept that is truly alien, and us as readers cannot understand it. It's why the "rubber-headed alien" is a very useful thing. Look all alien, but have human motions and thought processes.Unfortunatly, we are all human. We can only experience the universe through our abilities. At some level your aliens are going to have human desires for them to work.
Swith - Today at 10:14 AM
Good point, FRFS.
FRFS - Today at 10:14 AM
I know it's sexy and cool to have something totally exotic and unique. It's all shiny and makes you feel super good to look at it. But if you can't even use it? What's the point?
Why spend years building a castle. And then you can't even live in it?
Zark - Today at 10:15 AM
in my humble opinion, the difference between an alien culture and a "standard" human one (or whatever you're picking) is no more or less than the difference between two distinct human cultures
Swith - Today at 10:15 AM
In N&I - I often start my aliens out as having some prior contact with other species. They understand a few of humanity's quirks, for example, and know how to conduct themselves. They may still do "weird things" or approach a situation using radically different methods than humans do, but they present understandable elements to "humanize" much of their behaviors.
FRFS - Today at 10:16 AM
If you're going to go super alien in FT, do so with your asthetics, your culture, your operations.
Agy - Today at 10:16 AM
FRFS and Swith make good points, you need specific interactions that your aliens can relate to humans with on a certain level, so that readers will have a degree of understanding and empathy for them.
Swith - Today at 10:16 AM
(Has anyone else noticed my inability to type this morning??)
Agy - Today at 10:16 AM
Unless they're the villain, of course, but even then, an empathetic villain is a useful one.
Gren - Today at 10:17 AM
I've been more focused on my inability to type, Swith.
I think its residual from my shenanigans last night.
FRFS - Today at 10:17 AM
Indeed. Any super exotic concept still needs to be personable for it to work in an RP setting. For instance I have no idea how to interact with sponges that communicate with soap bubbles.
It's a cool idea. It may sell books even. But to RP with it, just became impossible.
Swith - Today at 10:18 AM
That's a good point, FRFS.
FRFS - Today at 10:18 AM
When you're going to craft something, always keep in mind how others are going to interact with it.
Swith - Today at 10:18 AM
If we can't interact, it's pretty much not going to work in a joint storytelling setting.
We're waiting on a bit of clarification from Ched regarding the next question.
And it's, "You want to introduce a brand new concept into your game, how would you begin to conduct it? Like your more alien stuff into an FT RP, or some more fantastical elements into your fantasy P2TM RP?" ( Question Seventeen )
FRFS - Today at 10:20 AM
Ched you better become one hell of a writer with all these questions
Swith - Today at 10:20 AM
Ten minutes, panelists, or one more question, whichever comes first.
Zark - Today at 10:20 AM
I don't think I can say much in abstract, other than general advise: do it slowly, don't make it forced, make your players piece together things instead of spelling it out for them, et cetera
advice*
Swith - Today at 10:21 AM
(Ched absorbs everything and grows daily. I'm very impressed by his zeal and determination.)
Agy - Today at 10:21 AM
Question 17: Depends on the concept.
Sometimes you can get away with having it straight-up introduced with a little exposition and letting the players play around with the concept.
Other times you'll want to slowly introduce details and built up tension, especially if the concept is an opponent, enemy, or some kind of superweapon the characters aren't supposed to fully understand.
Gren - Today at 10:21 AM
^
Swith - Today at 10:22 AM
The only time I use jarring introductions is... well, horror/thriller RP. I want to catch people off guard, creeping them out with shadows and sounds a bit, but the jump scare is sometimes a good way to go.
FRFS - Today at 10:23 AM
Q17: this is exactly what OOC interaction is for. Especially with something very different to the current setting. Bring it up with the people in the community first. See how your idea works with their setting. It'll be pretty obvious from the start if you're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
Swith - Today at 10:23 AM
Final Question What is the single most important bit of advice you can give with regard to writing, exposition, and the narrative?
Gren - Today at 10:24 AM
FQ: Eat your veggies.
FRFS - Today at 10:25 AM
If you've planned out where you're going. You can easily spot wonderful little places on the highway to stop and explore. If you don't know where you're going, all the interesting stuff goes right past you cause you're just focused on where you're going.
Agy - Today at 10:25 AM
Final Question: Write what you think is important.
You can have all the skill and practice in the world, you can be a veteran of hundreds of RPs across all kinds of forums, be a master of tabletop, and maybe even win some awards for LARPing, but...
If the audience and your fellow roleplayers don't feel as though you think the roleplay you're in is important, you're not going to captivate them. Any story worth telling is worth telling properly, and you can only really do that if you're engaged in your work.
Swith - Today at 10:25 AM
My advice - don't convince yourself that you can't master this. Challenge yourself to improve, and pull yourself out of the rut if you've been there for too long. You can entertain your audience, with some effort and forethought. Add the highs, add the lows, and communicate with your fellow writers (players!) often.
Gren - Today at 10:25 AM
FRFS nailed it, honestly.
Swith - Today at 10:25 AM
I like Agy and FRFS' answers better.
Zark - Today at 10:25 AM
to quote one Douglas Adams: "Don't Panic"
writing is a big thing, even if you're a talented writer, you may sometimes find yourself at a loss of what to do to improve, or there may be so many things in mind that you won't know where to start, much more so if you're just a rookie or a young person; in these situations, it's important to not lose your shit-I mean, your cool, you can do it, just have some patience
Swith - Today at 10:26 AM
I think that about wraps things up.
Thank you, panelists and audience, for your participation.
Join us again this evening:
NS Sports: Mechanics and Roleplaying (Guest) — 4PM Eastern/8 PM GMT
Global Economics & Trade: A Primer — 7PM Eastern/11PM GMT
Worldbuilding and Related (Late Hour) — 9PM Eastern/1AM GMT
NS Roleplay Symposium 2017
TOPIC: "Writing... yeah I copied the wrong topic.”
TIME: COMPLETED
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