**NS Roleplay Symposium 2017**
LOCATION: Symposium Hall
TOPIC: Introduction to Roleplaying
TIME: 11AM - 12:30 PM Eastern, Sunday, July 9th
Good morning and welcome to our third panel of the Symposium. I'm Swith, one of the Symposium planners. I'm your discussion moderator for this session. We'll look at how to get started on Nationstates, and offer tips and suggestions for newbies and veterans alike. This panel will be repeated tonight at 8PM Eastern, though the panellists might be different.
Panellists, please introduce yourselves and tell us which subforums you haunt. I also thank guests for their patience. We will pull your questions from the #questions_chamber. To make it easier on us, please keep chatter to the main #ns_mentors channel. Thank you.
BEGIN ::
FRFS - Today at 11:02 AM
Hello all! Im FRFS and I mainly hang around up in II, although I will read interesting things no matter where they are posted.
Swith - Today at 11:02 AM
Good morning, FRFS.
I suspect this morning panel will be rather light. I'll contribute what I can to keep us moving.
FRFS - Today at 11:03 AM
I can be long winded
takes deep breath
Swith - Today at 11:04 AM
Thank goodness!
First Question Posed by Mini - "When typing out a character's quotes would it be good to skip lines or just to have them in a paragraph?"
FRFS - Today at 11:08 AM
That's gonna depend on two things! Flow of the post and the actual quote in of itself! The flow of the post is important in how it is read and understood by your reader. You always want to make sure it can be read easily and enjoyably. And an out of place quote can disrupt someone's reading pattern. If you're able, I'd suggest reading your posts out loud before you submit them. Make sure it sounds correct and the words tumble out of your mouth without sounding forced. Now the second part, the actual quote itself. If it is a long speech block quote (more than a single statement) I'd put it in its own paragraph. It will help your post flow better. If it's a single slime statement, or a part of speech that the character is acting with I'd place it with the action of the character.
For example:
Swith - Today at 11:09 AM
I agree.
New roleplayers tend to cluster conversations in a single paragraph. Always separate different character's speech by giving each its own paragraph.
FRFS - Today at 11:09 AM
My character is walking down the street chatting with someone, "the chatting here."
Compared to. My nation president sitting at a podium speaking to the nation.
New paragraph: "speech here"
Small actionable speech can be paired with their actions. Long block speech, should be separate
Swith - Today at 11:11 AM
If possible, avoid he/she said. Don't be afraid of action as a means to establish the speaker.
"I suppose I do need more coffee," Mary brushed limp bangs from her eyes to better see John. "And perhaps some breakfast to go with it, John?"(edited)
FRFS - Today at 11:11 AM
IIRC there is a rule of thumb regarding actual lines of speech. Like four lines or so should be seperate
Tilt - Today at 11:11 AM
Hi I'm Tilt and I'm a tired denizen of P2TM.
Swith - Today at 11:12 AM
Good morning, Tilt.
FRFS - Today at 11:12 AM
Morning Tilt
Swith - Today at 11:12 AM
FRFS, yes, in most cases.
Question 2 Posed by Ched - "What's some general advice you'll give to new and old players alike?"
Tilt - Today at 11:12 AM
Hello FRFS.
Don't lose sight that in the end it's a game.
Swith - Today at 11:13 AM
Q2 Have fun. Don't take it too seriously. Come up for air now and then, and draw inspiration from the world around you. Push your boundaries a bit, and don't be afraid of trying new writing techniques.
FRFS - Today at 11:14 AM
Q2 Always experiment! Don't be afraid to try something out and have it not work. It's not the end of the world to have a concept or idea not really pan out. It's something to learn from for your next idea.
Tilt - Today at 11:14 AM
Q2 - or new genres in our case. I've had it pointed out to me that I play within a certain limited range.
FRFS - Today at 11:14 AM
I've had plenty of nation ideas. Or concepts within this current nation I play with not work out. No one remembers small mistakes for long. And eventually the laughter of your peers subsides :stuck_out_tongue:
Swith - Today at 11:15 AM
Question 3 Posed by Mini - "When typing up an RP post, how much is too little and how much is too much. And should you put in as much detail as you can?"
FRFS - Today at 11:16 AM
Q3: not every post needs to be a massive wall of text. The post needs to have enough detail and information to effectively get across the portion of the story you want to tell. Sometimes it may be a small few lines to transition from one thing to another. Other times you may start knocking on the 60,000 character limit for a post.
Tilt - Today at 11:17 AM
Q3. It depends definitely on the frequency of posting. At most I don't often go over a couple paragraphs even when posting infrequently. The risk is that people's eyes get strained trying to read through a dense text block.
Macabees - Today at 11:17 AM
Q3: Every post should have a point, and what I mean by that is a specific central idea or plot through which the characters are taking you. Sometimes the story is long and sometimes it's short, but I wouldn't worry as much about the length as I would about the plot. If you're focused on building the plot and giving enough context for people to understand its meaning, you'll get a post that's at the 'just right' length.
Swith - Today at 11:17 AM
Q3 I tend to gauge my posts by what others are producing in a given game, and by what the OP requires. If players crank out a paragraph, I attempt the same. If the OP states "no one-liners", I try to do (at minimum) 2. There are times, especially in heavy stories, where we all write small novels (or so it seems).
The key is knowing when too much is TOO much. Too much exposition kills a post. Too much focus on the wrong things (such as what the character is wearing, if it isn't vital to the story) or the character's movements (if not used to set a tone) detracts from the meat of your post.
Good morning, Mac!
FRFS - Today at 11:18 AM
Q3: Scope and Parsimony as my old professors used to say. Find the smallest amount of words to get your idea across
Swith - Today at 11:18 AM
Exactly.
Question 4 Stock question - "Are you familiar with collaborated posts? If so, is it proper etiquette to edit other people's writing before the post goes live?"
To define: collaborated posts are posts written by two or more players. These are worked up in Google docs, in a chat, or using another off-site means.
Macabees - Today at 11:21 AM
Q4: If someone is willing to show me a Google Docs version of the post, I figure they want some feedback. I suggest edits and I leave comments, I never force them to accept my recommendations. If it's important enough, I'll talk to them one-on-one about it. Edit: The same goes for collab posts, where I'm writing a section and another player is writing another section.(edited)
Tilt - Today at 11:22 AM
Q4. I usually only edit on request, and generally only for mechanics.
Swith - Today at 11:23 AM
Q4 Always ask another player's permission before mucking with their work. It can be as simple as, "Do you mind if I add some fluff to make your paragraph better integrated?" The group should review and edit it, as a group, before one person posts it. "Tightening" and "polishing" make for a great addition to any game.
FRFS - Today at 11:24 AM
Q4: collab posts can be a great way to tell a story. Offering multiple perspectives on a single character or setting. I'd say if you're collaborating on posts, you and whoever you are collaborating with possibly know each other well. And any issue with editing should be done collaboratively as well.(edited)
Swith - Today at 11:24 AM
Question 5 Posed by Sailor - "In your opinion(s), when creating a setting or series of settings for an RP, whether it be in N&I or P2TM, should the GM lay all the details out in the open or reveal parts of it as it goes along?"
Macabees - Today at 11:27 AM
Q5: Interesting question. Usually, as a GM/OP I will try to make the immediate direction of the RP transparent. i.e. what my next moves are, their relationship to the other players' moves, et cetera. I do this because, at least on International Incidents, there's a lot of room for conflict over disalignment in the direction players want to go. It's easier just to agree to it beforehand and then flesh out the details once there's a big picture we all agree on. But I do like to leave some details as a surprise. I usually just gauge how open other players will be to surprises of one kind or another - some surprises go over well, others (like, "I just assassinated your head of state") are better left transparent before it's actually roleplayed.
FRFS - Today at 11:27 AM
Q5: setting details should be laid out in the open. Plot details could be as well, to give everyone an idea of where the story is going. That way everyone can adjust and grow their characters with the story. But depending on who you are playing with, maybe surprises in the plot might be more fun. I'd say talk with the people joining you in the RP first. Ask them, "would you rather I throw some surprises your way? Or do you want to know everything up front?" And it's okay to have some want everything up front and others to be surprised. You just disseminate the information as needed.
Tilt - Today at 11:28 AM
Q5. A basic framework laid out in the open so players know how to post. Other details released later.
Swith - Today at 11:29 AM
Q5 In addition to Mac and FRFS's solid advice...
For a 'scene': This depends on the game. Certainly make an effort to define the initial setting well enough for players to key on elements in order to craft a post. They shouldn't have to ask you the basics, such as "Is it dark?", "Is there cover?", "What time of day is it?", or even "Um, where are we? Did we just teleport somewhere new??"
Continuity is key. Establish something but make sure it doesn't vanish a few posts later.
Some GM, like Cer, prefer to entice players by giving them just enough to work with. He then allows their characters to explore, building upon the suspense or intensity.
Communication is VITAL, however. ALWAYS communicate behind the scenes, in your OOC or via TG, to keep things clear between you and your players.
For a setting: please take the time to define things. The more you define, the better players can gauge whether or not they want to play. :stuck_out_tongue:
FRFS - Today at 11:30 AM
Yeah that's a pretty solid to have a setting be clearly defined
Swith - Today at 11:30 AM
Question 6 Posed by Temp - "What genre of RP do the panelists think is the easiest to just pick up and play? While some ideas require a lot of prior reading to understand, others are just "Here's the setting, now have fun!" Or would you say it's more dependent on the threads themselves instead of a genre?"
FRFS - Today at 11:34 AM
Q6: the smaller the scope the easier it is to write. Starting as a singular character gives you less to research and set up before you can start writing. So jumping into the more character things in P2TM would be a nice place to start if your concerned about becoming a better writer first. I'd believe most of us started at the character level before jumping up into building nations, and in my case interstellar Republics.
Macabees - Today at 11:34 AM
Q6: It probably depends on the person. An avid sci-fi reader might pick up FT fairly easily, but not MT. Or someone who likes military history might be good at war RPs, but not so good at developing characters or at comedy or love. I think it's hard for new players overall, unless you're already an experienced writer and an experienced roleplayer. I read a lot of military history when I first started out in, oh...12 years ago..., but I was a piss poor writer so I wouldn't say I picked up MT quickly. I jumped into it quickly and then developed my skills over time.(edited)
Tilt - Today at 11:35 AM
Q6. It depends highly, imho, on the level of world building detail rather than on the genre. As FRFS says. A simple idea, like a military RP, can still have a lot of research put into it.
FRFS - Today at 11:35 AM
That's a good point: try to immerse yourself in things you already know
All I ever really enjoyed were sci fi games and shows. So naturally I jumped into FT and never looked back
Swith - Today at 11:36 AM
Question 7 Posed by Mini - "What exactly would be the best way to decide the outcome of a battle? A roll of the die? A look at the numbers and weaponry? And the casulty rate? How would that be determined?"
FRFS - Today at 11:38 AM
Q7: Talk it out with your partner before hand! Someone has to win and to lose! And losing can be just as interesting as winning from a plot perspective.
Tilt - Today at 11:38 AM
Q7. I'll sit this one out since I haven't done a lot of large scale fighting posts as this question suggests to me :stuck_out_tongue:
Macabees - Today at 11:38 AM
Q7: I'll offer an example. I'm currently in a RP called Titanomachy (plug: forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=318781), which revolves around a multi-front war between my nation, The Golden Throne, and the Scandinvan Empire, a powerhouse in Gholgoth. We have a broad ending already agreed upon. As I launch an offensive or a battle, or as he launches an offensive or a battle, we can then talk about how it takes us to where we want to go. If we want to build tension to a final battle where he defeats me, then it might make sense for me to win the preceding ones - to build an aura of invincibility, so that he can have a heroic moment and defeat my armies.
Swith - Today at 11:39 AM
(I love losing. Conflict makes for excellent character/faction/canon development.)
FRFS - Today at 11:39 AM
"Losing" the war or battle can set you up for a variety of jumping off points for future plots.
Tilt - Today at 11:39 AM
^
Macabees - Today at 11:39 AM
This question will also be discussed in detail in a panel on Tuesday. So if you want to dig in deeper, stop by then!
Swith - Today at 11:40 AM
Question 8 Posed by Sailor - "How should languages other than English be ideally used in RPs?"
FRFS - Today at 11:40 AM
And maybe if your RP partner doesn't want to lose, you yourself offer too. Show them it isn't that bad :wink:
Macabees - Today at 11:41 AM
Q8: When whole posts are written in other languages, but meant for a general audience, I really dislike it -- posts are meant to be read. If I have to work at translating yours, I'm not going to read it.
If you have characters speaking in other languages and you translate it for easy reading, that's fine.
Swith - Today at 11:41 AM
Q8 A rule of thumb we recommend in P2TM: italicize foreign languages when used in dialog.
"Merde!" Carl swore under his breath.
vs "Shit!" Carl swore under his breath.
Tilt - Today at 11:42 AM
Q8. I like the advice given elsewhere by Cer and Swith. Give the sound of it for short passages and translate or show via body language as needed.
Swith - Today at 11:43 AM
However, if using non-Roman letters, the reader can't "hear" the sounds in their heads.
"たわごと!" Carl swore under his breath.
vs
"Tawagoto!" Carl swore under his bearth.
FRFS - Today at 11:43 AM
Q8: foreign languages or con-langs can add an interesting dimension to the story. But I wouldn't flood the post with it. Make it tasteful, not overbearing.
Swith - Today at 11:43 AM
^ Spot on, FRFS.
Question 9 Posed by Sailor - "Speaking of body language, how should one write it in an effective way to picture it to the reader?"
Tilt - Today at 11:46 AM
Q9. Act it out, write it out maybe? Or ask someone if body language is different for your character and you.
FRFS - Today at 11:47 AM
Q9: Be super literal. While body language is a kinda an implied thing in real life, we do it almost unconsciously. We don't have that luxury over text. So just be literal with what you want them to do
leaned over to his left side uncomfortably as he boss continued his tirade.
Having a visual in your head of your character helps me as well. I kinda mentally picture them as I write them.
Swith - Today at 11:50 AM
A tip we recommend to new writers: Draft your post in the first person. Picture yourself going through the moment. The mind sometimes flows better when using that approach.
I looked at my keyboard, nervous about the whole idea of being a moderator. The house was deadly silent. There wasn't anyone available to bail me out. I took a deep breath and brushed away a bead of sweat. My fingers found the keys and the words began to flow.
Becomes:
Swith looked at her keyboard, nervous about the whole idea of being a Moderator. Her house was deadly silent. No one would bail her out. She took a deep breath and brushed away a bead of sweat. Her fingers found the keys. The words began to flow.
.(edited)
Question 10 Posed by Sailor - "Any advice for implementing a regular posting schedule in an RP? Under what circumstances can one be implemented, and how should it be ideally done?"
Tilt - Today at 11:53 AM
Q10. Large-scale bribery. Also known as I have no clue :stuck_out_tongue: I think that's not so much on the OP; player schedules can't be controlled tightly. Just that if the players are posting regularly elsewhere, drop their characters if it gets egregious.
FRFS - Today at 11:54 AM
Q10: I think what matters more is if there is any repercussions for not posting. Real life does always come first. No one should jeopardize their employment or personal relationships for NS.
Tilt - Today at 11:55 AM
Q10. Agreed, however communication is good. I've had no response sometimes when asking if a post is upcoming.
Macabees - Today at 11:56 AM
Q10: One tactic I use is to have different plot-lines with different players, and then using fluid time to help reconcile different posting paces. But, I'm usually the really, really slow poster.
Swith - Today at 11:56 AM
Question 11 Posed by Mini - "If you rp with someone and it was a pretty major interaction between the two characters, but all of a sudden that someone had to drop the RP, what would be a good thing to do? Start all over from scratch and make it so that there was never any interaction with that character or start from another point and reference the past interactions?"
FRFS - Today at 11:56 AM
Q10: fluid time is beautiful
Tilt - Today at 12:00 PM
Q11. Either is an option. I'd like to start from the point of dropping if possible; if not, referencing the past interactions is cool.
Swith - Today at 12:00 PM
Q11 I'm not sure how II and NS do things. In P2TM, the OP is the GM. It's their responsibility to keep the game's flow. A GM should step in, upon player request, to find a solution that works for the players and the game. They can wave their divine hand to gloss over the event, or end it, or perhaps finish the scene in the missing player's stead before parking the character permanently. REDACTS (starting over etc) are ugly and disrupt stories, especially if others have built upon the scene. It leaves an IC with blanked out sections.
Again, it all comes down to communication. Good roleplay etiquette is to alert your group if you are no longer interested, or if you won't have time to post anymore.
Tilt - Today at 12:00 PM
Q11. I was envisioning a two player private RP corner case.
Macabees - Today at 12:00 PM
Q11: Definitely a tough question. Many years ago, I OPd a thread called A Passion Play. The one player who was absolutely central to the story CTEd. I ended up focusing on other plot-lines with other players in the thread for a while, but eventually I had to address the problem. Because he CTEd and it didn't look like he was coming back, I simply used him as NPC and sort of continued the plot until I could 'tie it off.'(edited)
With the understanding that if he did come back we could 're-do' that part.
Swith - Today at 12:01 PM
Question 12 Posed by Ched - "How should a disagreement in the IC be resolved among two or more players?"
Macabees - Today at 12:03 PM
Q12: Take initiative and talk to each other about it openly. And, a piece of advice, don't focus on the disagreement. Focus on resolving the disagreement.
When people focus on the disagreement, all they talk about is that - why they disagree. If the focus is on resolution, you'll achieve it.
Swith - Today at 12:03 PM
[For clarification: A disagreement between players over an IC outcome]
FRFS - Today at 12:04 PM
Q12: talk talk talk talk. With the proliferation of IRC and Discord, talking with your RP partners has gotten very easy.(edited)
Always keep in mind that everyone wants the same thing. A kick ass story!
And be open to bending yourself, that way others can see you as an example, and maybe follow suit.
Swith - Today at 12:06 PM
Question 13 Posed by Eridani Imperium - "Let's be hypothetical for a moment: say your character's in a relationship with another, and the OOC player is taking the relationship as something more between you (the player) and them (the OOC player). Rare, I know, but I've ran into this a couple time myself, and would like some tips on how to deal with this."
Macabees - Today at 12:07 PM
Q13: Run
Tilt - Today at 12:07 PM
Q13. ^
Q13. Thorny. It's best I think to explain firmly at that point, and stop RP with that character if the hint isn't picked up. Player as necessary.
Macabees - Today at 12:09 PM
Q13: If the other player is taking it at that way, one way or another you're going to have to reject them (unless you're interested in a relationship with them). At that point, the character RP is prob. going to end.
FRFS - Today at 12:10 PM
Q13: never go further than you are comfortable with I guess. If you start feeling uncomfortable make your feelings known, and see if there is a way to simmer the relationship down to something you are more comfortable with.
Swith - Today at 12:10 PM
Q13 I frequently play romance story lines. This crap has happened to me far too often. The first step is to communicate with the other player right away. "Do we want to ship our characters?" The second step is to make it absolutely clear: "Alright, we'll ship them. But keep in mind that this is between our characters. Please don't interpret my character's actions as my own, personal attraction."
People tend to race into relationships between characters. The IC activity comes across as high school obsessive, or nightclub cheap. There's no chemistry. It's bored players getting a thrill. Real relationships build over time as characters endure trials and tribulations together. If the IC relationship has a solid foundation, there is less of a chance that the other player will treat it as OOC interest.
Avoid self-inserts whenever possible, as well. You are not your character. Your character may borrow traits from you, but you can not live vicariously through it. If you do, you'll have heartbreak or end up overly attached to the character for all the wrong reasons.
FRFS - Today at 12:10 PM
^
Macabees - Today at 12:10 PM
That's excellent advice.
FRFS - Today at 12:10 PM
That's probably the best explanation
Swith - Today at 12:11 PM
Question 14 Posed by Sailor - "How does a GM of a closed world region (CWR) encourage creativity among players while also setting certain restrictions in order to keep the consistency of the region's overall IC canon?"
[Moderation query] We still have questions coming in. Would our panellists care to extend the panel by a half hour?
Macabees - Today at 12:14 PM
Q14. Politics. Someone is running the region, or setting rules, or whatever. Someone or some group of people. As the region gets bigger, people are going to disagree with those politics and they'll want to create their own regions. A lot of the closed world regions that I know end up going inactive because they can't cultivate the creativity they need, because their rules and the way they enforce them don't jive with enough people to foster that creativity. Ultimately, ideas thrive in larger communities, and so if the rules that you have for your world are too strict you're not going to get the volume you need.
There's also networking. If you're the person building the region and promoting RPs, then you need to bring RPers to it. You do that by meeting people outside of your world and bringing them in. But this is also difficult with closed world regions; you have to have an alternative universe. You use this to network with people, you hook them, and then you pitch them to come to your region.(edited)
Tilt - Today at 12:14 PM
Q14. I'll defer since I'm not familiar with CWRs.
FRFS - Today at 12:15 PM
Q14: That's a difficult problem because by definition a CRG isn't getting an influx of new players every so often that helps keep things fresh with respect to ideas. I'd say it takes a lot of work internally from all parties of the CRG/CRW to be aware of stagnation and do what they can within the established setting to prop up new ideas.(edited)
(I'm okay with extending this)
Swith - Today at 12:16 PM
Question 15 Posed by Mini - "When trying to come up with new metals and ores for say a fantasy world or a science fiction world, what would be some qualities of these resources to write about?"
(Excellent! TY to all that can remain.)
FRFS - Today at 12:17 PM
Q15: Physical characteristics, as well as applicable characteristics. Basically what it looks like, and what you can do with it once processed
Also the most important. How shiny it is!
Pretty much you explain what the metal looks like in its natural and processed states. Then describe what can be done with it.
Macabees - Today at 12:19 PM
Q15: Imagine you're with another person somewhere and they pick up a rock.
What about that rock would be interesting to them?
FRFS - Today at 12:19 PM
We don't need to know chemical compositions. But we do need to know what it looks like, and what it can be.
Macabees - Today at 12:19 PM
What quality would you think they would point out?
Those are the details that you should mention in an RP - details that matter to the characters.
FRFS - Today at 12:20 PM
Oh yes. When describing things, just pretend you're actually picking it up and showing your child what it is.
That's a good point
Swith - Today at 12:20 PM
Question 16 Prompted by Tilt - "How do you handle tech levels for science fantasy?"
(Other than the "don't call magic, 'magic' rule of thumb.)
Macabees - Today at 12:22 PM
Q16: I think the tech comes down to what sounds really awesome in your mind. Science fantasy is great when the author is super creative and into it. Edit: Just create rules for consistency.(edited)
Swith - Today at 12:23 PM
Question 17 Posed by Sailor - "Pros and cons of joining RP groups, communities, alliances, etc.?" (And posed via PM: "Do any of our panelists belong to RP groups, orgs, etc?")
Tilt - Today at 12:24 PM
Q17. I should probably add that to my introduction...? I'm a member of Madhouse, for P2TM.
FRFS - Today at 12:24 PM
Q16: Technology v Magic. I think is the old debate. At what point does technology just become understood magic, and when does magic just become "I don't know this" technology. The larger community of whatever tech level you are at will have at some point come up with overarching general rules about the tech and those involved within the specific RP will as well. It's just about what you are comfortable writing about, and that generally splits off what you specifically know.
Tilt - Today at 12:25 PM
Q17. I find it helps to keep access open to RPs for members but at the same time it might feel closed off to nonmembers.
Macabees - Today at 12:26 PM
Q17: I try to stay away from big alliances. Personal preference. All the big alliances I've witnessed or been in have all been big promises, but big failures. You tend to be so vested in it that the alliance is above all, and if it's not you it's others. I am all for smaller alliances that form out of purely IC contexts, like an alliance I am forming in central Greater Dienstad out of a greater context in the world (geopolitics).
I love communities. I OP a PMT community. They're great to share ideas, start discussions, and promote RPs. I can't advocate for them enough.
Swith - Today at 12:27 PM
Q17 I belong to Madhouse Productions, a RP org based in P2TM but open to all RPers regardless of where they haunt. We are an organization of writers, world builders, and artists of all experience levels dedicated to storytelling and mechanics-based role play games.
People learn by immersing themselves into a game or project. They're exposed to more experienced writers, worldbuilders, roleplayers and thus they get a taste for various writing styles. In our group, members offer positive critique to gently guide them regarding structure, verbiage, pacing. We want a large membership filled with people that hold a variety of Interests. Groups need diversity. The larger our group, the more information we can offer to those within and outside it.
That said... don't be a damn clique. Cliques create division in communities. If your org spends more time propping themselves up and tearing others down, it's not serving much of a purpose, is it?
Tilt - Today at 12:28 PM
This.
Swith - Today at 12:28 PM
Question 18 Posed by Ched - "When you fashion a military, or really any organization for a nation or setting, what's the first thing that comes to mind in making it?"(edited)
FRFS - Today at 12:29 PM
Q18: who we are. What we do. Why we do it. And how we do it.
Macabees - Today at 12:29 PM
Q18: What kind of objectives will it need to meet? What kind of terrain is it expected to fight in? What kind of training can I afford given my wealth level in my canon? Or what FRFS said.
Tilt - Today at 12:30 PM
Q18. Purpose is all. And means.
FRFS - Today at 12:30 PM
If you can answer those questions you'll see avenues to explore with building your nation.
Big ole defensive measures and static construction? Or quick fast maneuvering counter attacks. Etc etc
As well if anyone ever needs help with Doctrine, I'm usually always on Discord.
Those questions really make you think on what you want your military to do. No military can do everything
Tilt - Today at 12:32 PM
Athena, as an example... I gave it a feel that it's a band of elite light infantry rather than a counterterrorism or other specialized force. So it's reflected in what I chose for the backgrounds of most of the groups it recruits from. TVTropes has a page on this, funnily enough.
Macabees - Today at 12:33 PM
Honestly, though, just start - that's the secret.
No one gets it perfect the first time.
FRFS - Today at 12:33 PM
That is true
Edit buttons are great
Swith - Today at 12:33 PM
Q18 Scale comes to mind. As is often advised in the FT community, think of what you can hold in your head (or on paper). Militaries are like fake money. Anyone can say they have a bazillion dollars. If you can't play out having a large sum of money (in any realistic sense), you'll look like a noob. When creating your military, look at your nation's population. If creating for a non-nation RP, think of the setting's population. Can it support a large-scale operation? Does it have enough people to field a massive force in battle? Realism is key. This isn't WH40K with endless figs. (Actually, in that case, it's how many points you can spend, and how much you're willing to shell out for figs!)
.(edited)
Question 19 Posed via PM - "How did you all get into roleplaying? What drew you in, and why?"(edited)
FRFS - Today at 12:34 PM
^19
Swith - Today at 12:35 PM
TY FRFS.
Tilt - Today at 12:35 PM
Q19. Literally stumbled into NS:\P2TM one day. Found a few cool people. Hung around. Found some more. :stuck_out_tongue:
I feel like trying to get RPers unfamiliar with each other to expand groups is worthwhile.(edited)
Swith - Today at 12:36 PM
Q19 I'm a nerd. My uncle introduced me to roleplay when I was little.
FRFS - Today at 12:37 PM
Q19: I kinda fell into this and it just felt right. I've always been a heavy reader and I loved (and still do) playing the Civilization series of games. So finding a website that let be build my own nation was amazing. I didn't start really writing for a long time (self esteem issues). Then I just started to let myself out there more and more, and found that people are nicer than what I initially thought, and my ideas weren't that bad.
And now I always say if you want to write and RP, do it. It's so fun.
Macabees - Today at 12:38 PM
Q19: I joined when I was in high school. I was an avid reader of WW2 and Roman history, and I had also read Tolkien, Jordan, etc., --- and I've always loved to write -- and so when a friend I had met on Empire Earth introduced me to NationStates I got hooked.
Swith - Today at 12:39 PM
Question 20 Posed by Eridani Imperium - "Does the panel have any advice on getting past the "first-post" anxiety?"
Macabees - Today at 12:40 PM
Q20: In a live talk Brandon Sanderson gave, he once explained his writing process. He doesn't wait for inspiration. He doesn't wait for the right moment. He wakes up and writes for 8 hours (or however many hours). Then he turns it off and spends times with his kids. The point is, just write. If you don't like it, throw it away and start over, but just keep writing.(edited)
FRFS - Today at 12:40 PM
Q20: it's the worst isn't it? Honestly just hit the button. Put it out there. If it's a good idea. People will flock to it. And if not, it's not the end of the world. You can always learn from what doesn't work, and try again. There is no limit to how many times you can "start".
Tilt - Today at 12:41 PM
Q20. Read the series finale strip for Calvin and Hobbes. It's a fresh new world - let's go exploring. Or how the wording went. Also don't be in a rush to post.
Inspiration comes from a lot of places.
Swith - Today at 12:43 PM
Q20 Some new-to-forum-RP people acclimate by dropping small stuff into F7. The "In the Above Nation" threads don't require much, and give you a chance to think about your nation canon. People are forgiving there, and it's very light-hearted. It's okay if you mess up. Just take screw-ups with a grain of salt.
FRFS - Today at 12:43 PM
Indeed, don't beat yourself up over things that don't work. This is a fun place. And it should be that. Fun.
Swith - Today at 12:44 PM
Question 21 Posed by Ched - "What are some commonalties you often put into your characters, like traits or quirks, across different RPs you've been in?"
.(edited)
Q21 It actually depends on the subforum for me. In closed nation-play, I run the "intergalactic menace". My FT Big Bads have glaring flaws and faults, and screw up. They don't grasp things well (hive mentality) and are perplexed by the simple things in life. It's intentional on my part, mostly because I'm not there to win the game. I'm serving as the antagonist for sake of a good story. Be it an entire fleet or a simple character, they're going to approach everything oddly.
In P2TM, I weave in some of my own personal faults and qualities. My female characters tend to come across as strong individuals but, inside, they're a bit doubtful of themselves and their abilities. My males are patterned upon men in my life: somewhat reserved, a wry sense of humor.
Tilt - Today at 12:52 PM
Q21. Hm. Good question. Most of these are flavor elements. I try to make the character compelling for readers, so I try to stay away from having any commonality for the personality, the core, etc. But some of the tendencies, or the attributes, are characteristic if it fits the setting. It's a learning experience.
Swith - Today at 12:52 PM
Final Question Posed by Eridani Imperium - "What's the funniest thing that happened in IC?"
Tilt - Today at 12:54 PM
FQ. Woolly Bowl, exploding shrews, naked fairy, TF gun, gender swap. And of course the various Zalgofests. PL is a strange and wonderful place.
Swith - Today at 12:57 PM
Q22 It's an epic war. Three intensive players posting huge, novel-esque battle posts. The field is a small moon. I've painstakingly arranged my forces. The other players have moved in to counter. It's tense. We know this will decide not only the game, but canon from here out as far as who controls the sector.
Cer has his Thade in position, but I've noticed a flaw in his strategy. I move to exploit it, though it means compromising my flank. I post. The other players hold their breath. Cer realizes he's made a mistake. He's trapped. He could godmod his way out. Instead, the post is exceedingly simple. In one deft move, a hundred hardened forces crap themselves (a natural rodent reaction to predators) and run away squealing like little girls. Considering these are huge, six-legged space weasels that ordinarily tower over human beings, the result left us all in stitches and none of us could post for a few days.
Tilt - Today at 12:59 PM
Swith - Today at 1:01 PM
Thank you all for another excellent panel. It was a pleasure. Please don't forget that we're holding another one later this evening. The tentative schedule:
Today:
Introduction to Roleplaying (Broad Panel, Late Hour) — 8PM Eastern
Diversity in the Roleplaying Community — 9PM Eastern
Monday, July 10th, 2017
OP Management and GMing Roleplays (Broad Panel, Early Hour) — 12PM Eastern
Conflict Resolution and Out-of-Character Drama (Broad Panel, Late Hour) — 7PM Eastern
Observations on Gameplay — 9PM Eastern
NS Roleplay Symposium 2017
TOPIC: Introduction to Roleplaying (11AM session)
TIME: COMPLETED
LOCATION: Symposium Hall
TOPIC: Introduction to Roleplaying
TIME: 11AM - 12:30 PM Eastern, Sunday, July 9th
Good morning and welcome to our third panel of the Symposium. I'm Swith, one of the Symposium planners. I'm your discussion moderator for this session. We'll look at how to get started on Nationstates, and offer tips and suggestions for newbies and veterans alike. This panel will be repeated tonight at 8PM Eastern, though the panellists might be different.
Panellists, please introduce yourselves and tell us which subforums you haunt. I also thank guests for their patience. We will pull your questions from the #questions_chamber. To make it easier on us, please keep chatter to the main #ns_mentors channel. Thank you.
BEGIN ::
FRFS - Today at 11:02 AM
Hello all! Im FRFS and I mainly hang around up in II, although I will read interesting things no matter where they are posted.
Swith - Today at 11:02 AM
Good morning, FRFS.
I suspect this morning panel will be rather light. I'll contribute what I can to keep us moving.
FRFS - Today at 11:03 AM
I can be long winded
takes deep breath
Swith - Today at 11:04 AM
Thank goodness!
First Question Posed by Mini - "When typing out a character's quotes would it be good to skip lines or just to have them in a paragraph?"
FRFS - Today at 11:08 AM
That's gonna depend on two things! Flow of the post and the actual quote in of itself! The flow of the post is important in how it is read and understood by your reader. You always want to make sure it can be read easily and enjoyably. And an out of place quote can disrupt someone's reading pattern. If you're able, I'd suggest reading your posts out loud before you submit them. Make sure it sounds correct and the words tumble out of your mouth without sounding forced. Now the second part, the actual quote itself. If it is a long speech block quote (more than a single statement) I'd put it in its own paragraph. It will help your post flow better. If it's a single slime statement, or a part of speech that the character is acting with I'd place it with the action of the character.
For example:
Swith - Today at 11:09 AM
I agree.
New roleplayers tend to cluster conversations in a single paragraph. Always separate different character's speech by giving each its own paragraph.
FRFS - Today at 11:09 AM
My character is walking down the street chatting with someone, "the chatting here."
Compared to. My nation president sitting at a podium speaking to the nation.
New paragraph: "speech here"
Small actionable speech can be paired with their actions. Long block speech, should be separate
Swith - Today at 11:11 AM
If possible, avoid he/she said. Don't be afraid of action as a means to establish the speaker.
"I suppose I do need more coffee," Mary brushed limp bangs from her eyes to better see John. "And perhaps some breakfast to go with it, John?"(edited)
FRFS - Today at 11:11 AM
IIRC there is a rule of thumb regarding actual lines of speech. Like four lines or so should be seperate
Tilt - Today at 11:11 AM
Hi I'm Tilt and I'm a tired denizen of P2TM.
Swith - Today at 11:12 AM
Good morning, Tilt.
FRFS - Today at 11:12 AM
Morning Tilt
Swith - Today at 11:12 AM
FRFS, yes, in most cases.
Question 2 Posed by Ched - "What's some general advice you'll give to new and old players alike?"
Tilt - Today at 11:12 AM
Hello FRFS.
Don't lose sight that in the end it's a game.
Swith - Today at 11:13 AM
Q2 Have fun. Don't take it too seriously. Come up for air now and then, and draw inspiration from the world around you. Push your boundaries a bit, and don't be afraid of trying new writing techniques.
FRFS - Today at 11:14 AM
Q2 Always experiment! Don't be afraid to try something out and have it not work. It's not the end of the world to have a concept or idea not really pan out. It's something to learn from for your next idea.
Tilt - Today at 11:14 AM
Q2 - or new genres in our case. I've had it pointed out to me that I play within a certain limited range.
FRFS - Today at 11:14 AM
I've had plenty of nation ideas. Or concepts within this current nation I play with not work out. No one remembers small mistakes for long. And eventually the laughter of your peers subsides :stuck_out_tongue:
Swith - Today at 11:15 AM
Question 3 Posed by Mini - "When typing up an RP post, how much is too little and how much is too much. And should you put in as much detail as you can?"
FRFS - Today at 11:16 AM
Q3: not every post needs to be a massive wall of text. The post needs to have enough detail and information to effectively get across the portion of the story you want to tell. Sometimes it may be a small few lines to transition from one thing to another. Other times you may start knocking on the 60,000 character limit for a post.
Tilt - Today at 11:17 AM
Q3. It depends definitely on the frequency of posting. At most I don't often go over a couple paragraphs even when posting infrequently. The risk is that people's eyes get strained trying to read through a dense text block.
Macabees - Today at 11:17 AM
Q3: Every post should have a point, and what I mean by that is a specific central idea or plot through which the characters are taking you. Sometimes the story is long and sometimes it's short, but I wouldn't worry as much about the length as I would about the plot. If you're focused on building the plot and giving enough context for people to understand its meaning, you'll get a post that's at the 'just right' length.
Swith - Today at 11:17 AM
Q3 I tend to gauge my posts by what others are producing in a given game, and by what the OP requires. If players crank out a paragraph, I attempt the same. If the OP states "no one-liners", I try to do (at minimum) 2. There are times, especially in heavy stories, where we all write small novels (or so it seems).
The key is knowing when too much is TOO much. Too much exposition kills a post. Too much focus on the wrong things (such as what the character is wearing, if it isn't vital to the story) or the character's movements (if not used to set a tone) detracts from the meat of your post.
Good morning, Mac!
FRFS - Today at 11:18 AM
Q3: Scope and Parsimony as my old professors used to say. Find the smallest amount of words to get your idea across
Swith - Today at 11:18 AM
Exactly.
Question 4 Stock question - "Are you familiar with collaborated posts? If so, is it proper etiquette to edit other people's writing before the post goes live?"
To define: collaborated posts are posts written by two or more players. These are worked up in Google docs, in a chat, or using another off-site means.
Macabees - Today at 11:21 AM
Q4: If someone is willing to show me a Google Docs version of the post, I figure they want some feedback. I suggest edits and I leave comments, I never force them to accept my recommendations. If it's important enough, I'll talk to them one-on-one about it. Edit: The same goes for collab posts, where I'm writing a section and another player is writing another section.(edited)
Tilt - Today at 11:22 AM
Q4. I usually only edit on request, and generally only for mechanics.
Swith - Today at 11:23 AM
Q4 Always ask another player's permission before mucking with their work. It can be as simple as, "Do you mind if I add some fluff to make your paragraph better integrated?" The group should review and edit it, as a group, before one person posts it. "Tightening" and "polishing" make for a great addition to any game.
FRFS - Today at 11:24 AM
Q4: collab posts can be a great way to tell a story. Offering multiple perspectives on a single character or setting. I'd say if you're collaborating on posts, you and whoever you are collaborating with possibly know each other well. And any issue with editing should be done collaboratively as well.(edited)
Swith - Today at 11:24 AM
Question 5 Posed by Sailor - "In your opinion(s), when creating a setting or series of settings for an RP, whether it be in N&I or P2TM, should the GM lay all the details out in the open or reveal parts of it as it goes along?"
Macabees - Today at 11:27 AM
Q5: Interesting question. Usually, as a GM/OP I will try to make the immediate direction of the RP transparent. i.e. what my next moves are, their relationship to the other players' moves, et cetera. I do this because, at least on International Incidents, there's a lot of room for conflict over disalignment in the direction players want to go. It's easier just to agree to it beforehand and then flesh out the details once there's a big picture we all agree on. But I do like to leave some details as a surprise. I usually just gauge how open other players will be to surprises of one kind or another - some surprises go over well, others (like, "I just assassinated your head of state") are better left transparent before it's actually roleplayed.
FRFS - Today at 11:27 AM
Q5: setting details should be laid out in the open. Plot details could be as well, to give everyone an idea of where the story is going. That way everyone can adjust and grow their characters with the story. But depending on who you are playing with, maybe surprises in the plot might be more fun. I'd say talk with the people joining you in the RP first. Ask them, "would you rather I throw some surprises your way? Or do you want to know everything up front?" And it's okay to have some want everything up front and others to be surprised. You just disseminate the information as needed.
Tilt - Today at 11:28 AM
Q5. A basic framework laid out in the open so players know how to post. Other details released later.
Swith - Today at 11:29 AM
Q5 In addition to Mac and FRFS's solid advice...
For a 'scene': This depends on the game. Certainly make an effort to define the initial setting well enough for players to key on elements in order to craft a post. They shouldn't have to ask you the basics, such as "Is it dark?", "Is there cover?", "What time of day is it?", or even "Um, where are we? Did we just teleport somewhere new??"
Continuity is key. Establish something but make sure it doesn't vanish a few posts later.
Some GM, like Cer, prefer to entice players by giving them just enough to work with. He then allows their characters to explore, building upon the suspense or intensity.
Communication is VITAL, however. ALWAYS communicate behind the scenes, in your OOC or via TG, to keep things clear between you and your players.
For a setting: please take the time to define things. The more you define, the better players can gauge whether or not they want to play. :stuck_out_tongue:
FRFS - Today at 11:30 AM
Yeah that's a pretty solid to have a setting be clearly defined
Swith - Today at 11:30 AM
Question 6 Posed by Temp - "What genre of RP do the panelists think is the easiest to just pick up and play? While some ideas require a lot of prior reading to understand, others are just "Here's the setting, now have fun!" Or would you say it's more dependent on the threads themselves instead of a genre?"
FRFS - Today at 11:34 AM
Q6: the smaller the scope the easier it is to write. Starting as a singular character gives you less to research and set up before you can start writing. So jumping into the more character things in P2TM would be a nice place to start if your concerned about becoming a better writer first. I'd believe most of us started at the character level before jumping up into building nations, and in my case interstellar Republics.
Macabees - Today at 11:34 AM
Q6: It probably depends on the person. An avid sci-fi reader might pick up FT fairly easily, but not MT. Or someone who likes military history might be good at war RPs, but not so good at developing characters or at comedy or love. I think it's hard for new players overall, unless you're already an experienced writer and an experienced roleplayer. I read a lot of military history when I first started out in, oh...12 years ago..., but I was a piss poor writer so I wouldn't say I picked up MT quickly. I jumped into it quickly and then developed my skills over time.(edited)
Tilt - Today at 11:35 AM
Q6. It depends highly, imho, on the level of world building detail rather than on the genre. As FRFS says. A simple idea, like a military RP, can still have a lot of research put into it.
FRFS - Today at 11:35 AM
That's a good point: try to immerse yourself in things you already know
All I ever really enjoyed were sci fi games and shows. So naturally I jumped into FT and never looked back
Swith - Today at 11:36 AM
Question 7 Posed by Mini - "What exactly would be the best way to decide the outcome of a battle? A roll of the die? A look at the numbers and weaponry? And the casulty rate? How would that be determined?"
FRFS - Today at 11:38 AM
Q7: Talk it out with your partner before hand! Someone has to win and to lose! And losing can be just as interesting as winning from a plot perspective.
Tilt - Today at 11:38 AM
Q7. I'll sit this one out since I haven't done a lot of large scale fighting posts as this question suggests to me :stuck_out_tongue:
Macabees - Today at 11:38 AM
Q7: I'll offer an example. I'm currently in a RP called Titanomachy (plug: forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=318781), which revolves around a multi-front war between my nation, The Golden Throne, and the Scandinvan Empire, a powerhouse in Gholgoth. We have a broad ending already agreed upon. As I launch an offensive or a battle, or as he launches an offensive or a battle, we can then talk about how it takes us to where we want to go. If we want to build tension to a final battle where he defeats me, then it might make sense for me to win the preceding ones - to build an aura of invincibility, so that he can have a heroic moment and defeat my armies.
Swith - Today at 11:39 AM
(I love losing. Conflict makes for excellent character/faction/canon development.)
FRFS - Today at 11:39 AM
"Losing" the war or battle can set you up for a variety of jumping off points for future plots.
Tilt - Today at 11:39 AM
^
Macabees - Today at 11:39 AM
This question will also be discussed in detail in a panel on Tuesday. So if you want to dig in deeper, stop by then!
Swith - Today at 11:40 AM
Question 8 Posed by Sailor - "How should languages other than English be ideally used in RPs?"
FRFS - Today at 11:40 AM
And maybe if your RP partner doesn't want to lose, you yourself offer too. Show them it isn't that bad :wink:
Macabees - Today at 11:41 AM
Q8: When whole posts are written in other languages, but meant for a general audience, I really dislike it -- posts are meant to be read. If I have to work at translating yours, I'm not going to read it.
If you have characters speaking in other languages and you translate it for easy reading, that's fine.
Swith - Today at 11:41 AM
Q8 A rule of thumb we recommend in P2TM: italicize foreign languages when used in dialog.
"Merde!" Carl swore under his breath.
vs "Shit!" Carl swore under his breath.
Tilt - Today at 11:42 AM
Q8. I like the advice given elsewhere by Cer and Swith. Give the sound of it for short passages and translate or show via body language as needed.
Swith - Today at 11:43 AM
However, if using non-Roman letters, the reader can't "hear" the sounds in their heads.
"たわごと!" Carl swore under his breath.
vs
"Tawagoto!" Carl swore under his bearth.
FRFS - Today at 11:43 AM
Q8: foreign languages or con-langs can add an interesting dimension to the story. But I wouldn't flood the post with it. Make it tasteful, not overbearing.
Swith - Today at 11:43 AM
^ Spot on, FRFS.
Question 9 Posed by Sailor - "Speaking of body language, how should one write it in an effective way to picture it to the reader?"
Tilt - Today at 11:46 AM
Q9. Act it out, write it out maybe? Or ask someone if body language is different for your character and you.
FRFS - Today at 11:47 AM
Q9: Be super literal. While body language is a kinda an implied thing in real life, we do it almost unconsciously. We don't have that luxury over text. So just be literal with what you want them to do
leaned over to his left side uncomfortably as he boss continued his tirade.
Having a visual in your head of your character helps me as well. I kinda mentally picture them as I write them.
Swith - Today at 11:50 AM
A tip we recommend to new writers: Draft your post in the first person. Picture yourself going through the moment. The mind sometimes flows better when using that approach.
I looked at my keyboard, nervous about the whole idea of being a moderator. The house was deadly silent. There wasn't anyone available to bail me out. I took a deep breath and brushed away a bead of sweat. My fingers found the keys and the words began to flow.
Becomes:
Swith looked at her keyboard, nervous about the whole idea of being a Moderator. Her house was deadly silent. No one would bail her out. She took a deep breath and brushed away a bead of sweat. Her fingers found the keys. The words began to flow.
.(edited)
Question 10 Posed by Sailor - "Any advice for implementing a regular posting schedule in an RP? Under what circumstances can one be implemented, and how should it be ideally done?"
Tilt - Today at 11:53 AM
Q10. Large-scale bribery. Also known as I have no clue :stuck_out_tongue: I think that's not so much on the OP; player schedules can't be controlled tightly. Just that if the players are posting regularly elsewhere, drop their characters if it gets egregious.
FRFS - Today at 11:54 AM
Q10: I think what matters more is if there is any repercussions for not posting. Real life does always come first. No one should jeopardize their employment or personal relationships for NS.
Tilt - Today at 11:55 AM
Q10. Agreed, however communication is good. I've had no response sometimes when asking if a post is upcoming.
Macabees - Today at 11:56 AM
Q10: One tactic I use is to have different plot-lines with different players, and then using fluid time to help reconcile different posting paces. But, I'm usually the really, really slow poster.
Swith - Today at 11:56 AM
Question 11 Posed by Mini - "If you rp with someone and it was a pretty major interaction between the two characters, but all of a sudden that someone had to drop the RP, what would be a good thing to do? Start all over from scratch and make it so that there was never any interaction with that character or start from another point and reference the past interactions?"
FRFS - Today at 11:56 AM
Q10: fluid time is beautiful
Tilt - Today at 12:00 PM
Q11. Either is an option. I'd like to start from the point of dropping if possible; if not, referencing the past interactions is cool.
Swith - Today at 12:00 PM
Q11 I'm not sure how II and NS do things. In P2TM, the OP is the GM. It's their responsibility to keep the game's flow. A GM should step in, upon player request, to find a solution that works for the players and the game. They can wave their divine hand to gloss over the event, or end it, or perhaps finish the scene in the missing player's stead before parking the character permanently. REDACTS (starting over etc) are ugly and disrupt stories, especially if others have built upon the scene. It leaves an IC with blanked out sections.
Again, it all comes down to communication. Good roleplay etiquette is to alert your group if you are no longer interested, or if you won't have time to post anymore.
Tilt - Today at 12:00 PM
Q11. I was envisioning a two player private RP corner case.
Macabees - Today at 12:00 PM
Q11: Definitely a tough question. Many years ago, I OPd a thread called A Passion Play. The one player who was absolutely central to the story CTEd. I ended up focusing on other plot-lines with other players in the thread for a while, but eventually I had to address the problem. Because he CTEd and it didn't look like he was coming back, I simply used him as NPC and sort of continued the plot until I could 'tie it off.'(edited)
With the understanding that if he did come back we could 're-do' that part.
Swith - Today at 12:01 PM
Question 12 Posed by Ched - "How should a disagreement in the IC be resolved among two or more players?"
Macabees - Today at 12:03 PM
Q12: Take initiative and talk to each other about it openly. And, a piece of advice, don't focus on the disagreement. Focus on resolving the disagreement.
When people focus on the disagreement, all they talk about is that - why they disagree. If the focus is on resolution, you'll achieve it.
Swith - Today at 12:03 PM
[For clarification: A disagreement between players over an IC outcome]
FRFS - Today at 12:04 PM
Q12: talk talk talk talk. With the proliferation of IRC and Discord, talking with your RP partners has gotten very easy.(edited)
Always keep in mind that everyone wants the same thing. A kick ass story!
And be open to bending yourself, that way others can see you as an example, and maybe follow suit.
Swith - Today at 12:06 PM
Question 13 Posed by Eridani Imperium - "Let's be hypothetical for a moment: say your character's in a relationship with another, and the OOC player is taking the relationship as something more between you (the player) and them (the OOC player). Rare, I know, but I've ran into this a couple time myself, and would like some tips on how to deal with this."
Macabees - Today at 12:07 PM
Q13: Run
Tilt - Today at 12:07 PM
Q13. ^
Q13. Thorny. It's best I think to explain firmly at that point, and stop RP with that character if the hint isn't picked up. Player as necessary.
Macabees - Today at 12:09 PM
Q13: If the other player is taking it at that way, one way or another you're going to have to reject them (unless you're interested in a relationship with them). At that point, the character RP is prob. going to end.
FRFS - Today at 12:10 PM
Q13: never go further than you are comfortable with I guess. If you start feeling uncomfortable make your feelings known, and see if there is a way to simmer the relationship down to something you are more comfortable with.
Swith - Today at 12:10 PM
Q13 I frequently play romance story lines. This crap has happened to me far too often. The first step is to communicate with the other player right away. "Do we want to ship our characters?" The second step is to make it absolutely clear: "Alright, we'll ship them. But keep in mind that this is between our characters. Please don't interpret my character's actions as my own, personal attraction."
People tend to race into relationships between characters. The IC activity comes across as high school obsessive, or nightclub cheap. There's no chemistry. It's bored players getting a thrill. Real relationships build over time as characters endure trials and tribulations together. If the IC relationship has a solid foundation, there is less of a chance that the other player will treat it as OOC interest.
Avoid self-inserts whenever possible, as well. You are not your character. Your character may borrow traits from you, but you can not live vicariously through it. If you do, you'll have heartbreak or end up overly attached to the character for all the wrong reasons.
FRFS - Today at 12:10 PM
^
Macabees - Today at 12:10 PM
That's excellent advice.
FRFS - Today at 12:10 PM
That's probably the best explanation
Swith - Today at 12:11 PM
Question 14 Posed by Sailor - "How does a GM of a closed world region (CWR) encourage creativity among players while also setting certain restrictions in order to keep the consistency of the region's overall IC canon?"
[Moderation query] We still have questions coming in. Would our panellists care to extend the panel by a half hour?
Macabees - Today at 12:14 PM
Q14. Politics. Someone is running the region, or setting rules, or whatever. Someone or some group of people. As the region gets bigger, people are going to disagree with those politics and they'll want to create their own regions. A lot of the closed world regions that I know end up going inactive because they can't cultivate the creativity they need, because their rules and the way they enforce them don't jive with enough people to foster that creativity. Ultimately, ideas thrive in larger communities, and so if the rules that you have for your world are too strict you're not going to get the volume you need.
There's also networking. If you're the person building the region and promoting RPs, then you need to bring RPers to it. You do that by meeting people outside of your world and bringing them in. But this is also difficult with closed world regions; you have to have an alternative universe. You use this to network with people, you hook them, and then you pitch them to come to your region.(edited)
Tilt - Today at 12:14 PM
Q14. I'll defer since I'm not familiar with CWRs.
FRFS - Today at 12:15 PM
Q14: That's a difficult problem because by definition a CRG isn't getting an influx of new players every so often that helps keep things fresh with respect to ideas. I'd say it takes a lot of work internally from all parties of the CRG/CRW to be aware of stagnation and do what they can within the established setting to prop up new ideas.(edited)
(I'm okay with extending this)
Swith - Today at 12:16 PM
Question 15 Posed by Mini - "When trying to come up with new metals and ores for say a fantasy world or a science fiction world, what would be some qualities of these resources to write about?"
(Excellent! TY to all that can remain.)
FRFS - Today at 12:17 PM
Q15: Physical characteristics, as well as applicable characteristics. Basically what it looks like, and what you can do with it once processed
Also the most important. How shiny it is!
Pretty much you explain what the metal looks like in its natural and processed states. Then describe what can be done with it.
Macabees - Today at 12:19 PM
Q15: Imagine you're with another person somewhere and they pick up a rock.
What about that rock would be interesting to them?
FRFS - Today at 12:19 PM
We don't need to know chemical compositions. But we do need to know what it looks like, and what it can be.
Macabees - Today at 12:19 PM
What quality would you think they would point out?
Those are the details that you should mention in an RP - details that matter to the characters.
FRFS - Today at 12:20 PM
Oh yes. When describing things, just pretend you're actually picking it up and showing your child what it is.
That's a good point
Swith - Today at 12:20 PM
Question 16 Prompted by Tilt - "How do you handle tech levels for science fantasy?"
(Other than the "don't call magic, 'magic' rule of thumb.)
Macabees - Today at 12:22 PM
Q16: I think the tech comes down to what sounds really awesome in your mind. Science fantasy is great when the author is super creative and into it. Edit: Just create rules for consistency.(edited)
Swith - Today at 12:23 PM
Question 17 Posed by Sailor - "Pros and cons of joining RP groups, communities, alliances, etc.?" (And posed via PM: "Do any of our panelists belong to RP groups, orgs, etc?")
Tilt - Today at 12:24 PM
Q17. I should probably add that to my introduction...? I'm a member of Madhouse, for P2TM.
FRFS - Today at 12:24 PM
Q16: Technology v Magic. I think is the old debate. At what point does technology just become understood magic, and when does magic just become "I don't know this" technology. The larger community of whatever tech level you are at will have at some point come up with overarching general rules about the tech and those involved within the specific RP will as well. It's just about what you are comfortable writing about, and that generally splits off what you specifically know.
Tilt - Today at 12:25 PM
Q17. I find it helps to keep access open to RPs for members but at the same time it might feel closed off to nonmembers.
Macabees - Today at 12:26 PM
Q17: I try to stay away from big alliances. Personal preference. All the big alliances I've witnessed or been in have all been big promises, but big failures. You tend to be so vested in it that the alliance is above all, and if it's not you it's others. I am all for smaller alliances that form out of purely IC contexts, like an alliance I am forming in central Greater Dienstad out of a greater context in the world (geopolitics).
I love communities. I OP a PMT community. They're great to share ideas, start discussions, and promote RPs. I can't advocate for them enough.
Swith - Today at 12:27 PM
Q17 I belong to Madhouse Productions, a RP org based in P2TM but open to all RPers regardless of where they haunt. We are an organization of writers, world builders, and artists of all experience levels dedicated to storytelling and mechanics-based role play games.
People learn by immersing themselves into a game or project. They're exposed to more experienced writers, worldbuilders, roleplayers and thus they get a taste for various writing styles. In our group, members offer positive critique to gently guide them regarding structure, verbiage, pacing. We want a large membership filled with people that hold a variety of Interests. Groups need diversity. The larger our group, the more information we can offer to those within and outside it.
That said... don't be a damn clique. Cliques create division in communities. If your org spends more time propping themselves up and tearing others down, it's not serving much of a purpose, is it?
Tilt - Today at 12:28 PM
This.
Swith - Today at 12:28 PM
Question 18 Posed by Ched - "When you fashion a military, or really any organization for a nation or setting, what's the first thing that comes to mind in making it?"(edited)
FRFS - Today at 12:29 PM
Q18: who we are. What we do. Why we do it. And how we do it.
Macabees - Today at 12:29 PM
Q18: What kind of objectives will it need to meet? What kind of terrain is it expected to fight in? What kind of training can I afford given my wealth level in my canon? Or what FRFS said.
Tilt - Today at 12:30 PM
Q18. Purpose is all. And means.
FRFS - Today at 12:30 PM
If you can answer those questions you'll see avenues to explore with building your nation.
Big ole defensive measures and static construction? Or quick fast maneuvering counter attacks. Etc etc
As well if anyone ever needs help with Doctrine, I'm usually always on Discord.
Those questions really make you think on what you want your military to do. No military can do everything
Tilt - Today at 12:32 PM
Athena, as an example... I gave it a feel that it's a band of elite light infantry rather than a counterterrorism or other specialized force. So it's reflected in what I chose for the backgrounds of most of the groups it recruits from. TVTropes has a page on this, funnily enough.
Macabees - Today at 12:33 PM
Honestly, though, just start - that's the secret.
No one gets it perfect the first time.
FRFS - Today at 12:33 PM
That is true
Edit buttons are great
Swith - Today at 12:33 PM
Q18 Scale comes to mind. As is often advised in the FT community, think of what you can hold in your head (or on paper). Militaries are like fake money. Anyone can say they have a bazillion dollars. If you can't play out having a large sum of money (in any realistic sense), you'll look like a noob. When creating your military, look at your nation's population. If creating for a non-nation RP, think of the setting's population. Can it support a large-scale operation? Does it have enough people to field a massive force in battle? Realism is key. This isn't WH40K with endless figs. (Actually, in that case, it's how many points you can spend, and how much you're willing to shell out for figs!)
.(edited)
Question 19 Posed via PM - "How did you all get into roleplaying? What drew you in, and why?"(edited)
FRFS - Today at 12:34 PM
^19
Swith - Today at 12:35 PM
TY FRFS.
Tilt - Today at 12:35 PM
Q19. Literally stumbled into NS:\P2TM one day. Found a few cool people. Hung around. Found some more. :stuck_out_tongue:
I feel like trying to get RPers unfamiliar with each other to expand groups is worthwhile.(edited)
Swith - Today at 12:36 PM
Q19 I'm a nerd. My uncle introduced me to roleplay when I was little.
FRFS - Today at 12:37 PM
Q19: I kinda fell into this and it just felt right. I've always been a heavy reader and I loved (and still do) playing the Civilization series of games. So finding a website that let be build my own nation was amazing. I didn't start really writing for a long time (self esteem issues). Then I just started to let myself out there more and more, and found that people are nicer than what I initially thought, and my ideas weren't that bad.
And now I always say if you want to write and RP, do it. It's so fun.
Macabees - Today at 12:38 PM
Q19: I joined when I was in high school. I was an avid reader of WW2 and Roman history, and I had also read Tolkien, Jordan, etc., --- and I've always loved to write -- and so when a friend I had met on Empire Earth introduced me to NationStates I got hooked.
Swith - Today at 12:39 PM
Question 20 Posed by Eridani Imperium - "Does the panel have any advice on getting past the "first-post" anxiety?"
Macabees - Today at 12:40 PM
Q20: In a live talk Brandon Sanderson gave, he once explained his writing process. He doesn't wait for inspiration. He doesn't wait for the right moment. He wakes up and writes for 8 hours (or however many hours). Then he turns it off and spends times with his kids. The point is, just write. If you don't like it, throw it away and start over, but just keep writing.(edited)
FRFS - Today at 12:40 PM
Q20: it's the worst isn't it? Honestly just hit the button. Put it out there. If it's a good idea. People will flock to it. And if not, it's not the end of the world. You can always learn from what doesn't work, and try again. There is no limit to how many times you can "start".
Tilt - Today at 12:41 PM
Q20. Read the series finale strip for Calvin and Hobbes. It's a fresh new world - let's go exploring. Or how the wording went. Also don't be in a rush to post.
Inspiration comes from a lot of places.
Swith - Today at 12:43 PM
Q20 Some new-to-forum-RP people acclimate by dropping small stuff into F7. The "In the Above Nation" threads don't require much, and give you a chance to think about your nation canon. People are forgiving there, and it's very light-hearted. It's okay if you mess up. Just take screw-ups with a grain of salt.
FRFS - Today at 12:43 PM
Indeed, don't beat yourself up over things that don't work. This is a fun place. And it should be that. Fun.
Swith - Today at 12:44 PM
Question 21 Posed by Ched - "What are some commonalties you often put into your characters, like traits or quirks, across different RPs you've been in?"
.(edited)
Q21 It actually depends on the subforum for me. In closed nation-play, I run the "intergalactic menace". My FT Big Bads have glaring flaws and faults, and screw up. They don't grasp things well (hive mentality) and are perplexed by the simple things in life. It's intentional on my part, mostly because I'm not there to win the game. I'm serving as the antagonist for sake of a good story. Be it an entire fleet or a simple character, they're going to approach everything oddly.
In P2TM, I weave in some of my own personal faults and qualities. My female characters tend to come across as strong individuals but, inside, they're a bit doubtful of themselves and their abilities. My males are patterned upon men in my life: somewhat reserved, a wry sense of humor.
Tilt - Today at 12:52 PM
Q21. Hm. Good question. Most of these are flavor elements. I try to make the character compelling for readers, so I try to stay away from having any commonality for the personality, the core, etc. But some of the tendencies, or the attributes, are characteristic if it fits the setting. It's a learning experience.
Swith - Today at 12:52 PM
Final Question Posed by Eridani Imperium - "What's the funniest thing that happened in IC?"
Tilt - Today at 12:54 PM
FQ. Woolly Bowl, exploding shrews, naked fairy, TF gun, gender swap. And of course the various Zalgofests. PL is a strange and wonderful place.
Swith - Today at 12:57 PM
Q22 It's an epic war. Three intensive players posting huge, novel-esque battle posts. The field is a small moon. I've painstakingly arranged my forces. The other players have moved in to counter. It's tense. We know this will decide not only the game, but canon from here out as far as who controls the sector.
Cer has his Thade in position, but I've noticed a flaw in his strategy. I move to exploit it, though it means compromising my flank. I post. The other players hold their breath. Cer realizes he's made a mistake. He's trapped. He could godmod his way out. Instead, the post is exceedingly simple. In one deft move, a hundred hardened forces crap themselves (a natural rodent reaction to predators) and run away squealing like little girls. Considering these are huge, six-legged space weasels that ordinarily tower over human beings, the result left us all in stitches and none of us could post for a few days.
Tilt - Today at 12:59 PM
Swith - Today at 1:01 PM
Thank you all for another excellent panel. It was a pleasure. Please don't forget that we're holding another one later this evening. The tentative schedule:
Today:
Introduction to Roleplaying (Broad Panel, Late Hour) — 8PM Eastern
Diversity in the Roleplaying Community — 9PM Eastern
Monday, July 10th, 2017
OP Management and GMing Roleplays (Broad Panel, Early Hour) — 12PM Eastern
Conflict Resolution and Out-of-Character Drama (Broad Panel, Late Hour) — 7PM Eastern
Observations on Gameplay — 9PM Eastern
NS Roleplay Symposium 2017
TOPIC: Introduction to Roleplaying (11AM session)
TIME: COMPLETED