**NS Roleplay Symposium 2017**
LOCATION: Symposium Hall
TOPIC: NS Roleplay Symposium 2017 and Mentor Program Introduction
TIME: 7PM - 8:30 PM Eastern (2300 - 1230 GMT) Saturday, July 8th
Good evening and welcome to our first panel of the Symposium. I'm Swith, one of the Symposium planners. I'm your discussion moderator for this session.
I'd like to take a moment to thank our evening's contributors for helping us kick off our event! I invite each of them to take a moment to introduce themselves and give us their initial thoughts regarding the Symposium or, if a Mentor, their thoughts regarding the Mentor Program itself. We'll then open up the Q&A period.
I also thank guests for their patience. We will pull your questions from the #questions_chamber. To make it easier on us, please keep chatter to the main #ns_mentors channel. Please do NOT post anything in the #symposium_hall unless you are on the panel. Thank you.
BEGIN
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Cer - Today at 7:01 PM
I'm Cer, one of the Roleplay Mentors for P2TM. I've been on the site for a long while, off and on. Though I used to participate in gameplay and NS RP, I predominately haunt P2TM now. It's nice to see a site-wide symposium for roleplayers. It's a good way to bring us together and a broader community.
Swith - Today at 7:01 PM
Welcome, Cer.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:02 PM
I'm Kyru. N&I RP Mentor specializing in Future Tech. I've formerly been involved in Modern Tech and Post-Modern Tech as well (with a sprinkling of FanT). I oversee the Mentor Program as an NS Game Moderator. Inb4 "ask me anything."
Swith - Today at 7:03 PM
Welcome, Kyru.
Zark - Today at 7:04 PM
Hello there, I'm Zark (Zarkenis Ultima on the forums), I've been RPing for about six years, first in F7 and then in P2TM, where I prowl to this day. I'm happy to have the chance to help other players as a Mentor, and I look forward to seeing this symposium bring the site's roleplaying community together.
Swith - Today at 7:04 PM
Welcome, Zark.
Zwangzug - Today at 7:04 PM
I'm Zwangzug, a sports RPer who's been on and off for about ten years. (I'm also a newbie issues editor!) Looking forward to explaining what we do in our little niche and hopefully answering any burning questions that you have. :smiley:
Swith - Today at 7:05 PM
Welcome, Zwangzug. May we call you by a shorter nick?
Zwangzug - Today at 7:06 PM
Zwang is good!
Swith - Today at 7:06 PM
TY
Havensky - Today at 7:06 PM
Hello! I'm Havensky, II Mentor and member of the Gholgoth Region
Zwangzug - Today at 7:06 PM
No problem
Swith - Today at 7:06 PM
Welcome, Haven.
Lamoni - Today at 7:06 PM
Hello, I am Lamoni. I've been on Nationstates since 2002, generally haunting II, GE&T, and F&NI. I'm also a mentor, and have done many things on NS. It is nice to meat everyone, and I look forward to answering questions!
FRFS - Today at 7:06 PM
Hello, I’m FRFS. I’m a FT Player, but I’ll be a contributor to the Symposium on various panels throughout the week. It should be a fun time for all, and a great way to share ideas and learn from one another.
Swith - Today at 7:06 PM
We have a few more intros before we jump to some questions.
Welcome, Lamoni and FRFS.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:07 PM
As an aside, I do hope all our panels include homonym-based typos.
Swith - Today at 7:07 PM
(If I'm on it, they will. nods)
Giovenith - Today at 7:07 PM
Hello! It's a-me, Giovenith. I'm a P2TM player, here since 2012. It's great to see things coming together!
Swith - Today at 7:08 PM
Welcome, Gio.
Gren - Today at 7:09 PM
I'm Gren (Grenartia), and I'm not a mentor, and most people would probably recognize me from NSG (cue the shouts of "Boo! Hiss!") but I am fairly involved in P2TM, mainly with a focus on historical and sci-fi RPs. I've been on the site since 2010, and I've been in RP since 2013. I look forward to this week's events, and to forwarding (and answering) your questions.
Swith - Today at 7:10 PM
Welcome, Gren.
Our first question is one commonly asked: Why do you, as players, roleplay on NationStates rather than on other roleplay-oriented forums? In other words, what (in your opinion) is special about NS, and sets it apart from other sites?
Gren - Today at 7:12 PM
Honestly, NS was my introduction to RP (as I think it was to many of us in the community).
Zwangzug - Today at 7:13 PM
A lot of roleplay forums feel open-ended and like there's no clear end goal in sight. Either there will be a lot of hoops to jump through at the start, or there will be not very much writing quality, and my motivation tends to fizzle out. But on NS, crafting my nation in a "one day at a time" kind of thing lets me go at my own pace and give me new stimulation.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:14 PM
Well, to be frank, NationStates wasn't where I started.
I started ages ago on chatrooms, believe it or not; eventually I found, however, that my style of posting (ask around: I fail at summarization) was better suited for forums. I got pointed to NS as a joke. I've been here since - with the occassional absence.
As for what is special about NS? My word. That's something you could dedicate the entire Symposium toward. Regardless, if I had to pick one thing (for the sake of brevity, youll thank me later), it's the raw degree of both quality and general diversity in thoughts and ideas. I've seen people come-up with some remarkable things on this site over the years, and without the unique way in which NS and its various communities work, I don't think we'd have that.
Lamoni - Today at 7:14 PM
I like RPing on NS because of the community. I've made many friends here over the long-haul, and the friendships can really keep things going. NS was also my introduction to written RPing. I also enjoy worldbuilding my nation, a day at a time. There is a large amount of freedom on NS, and you can do a lot of things that I haven't really felt like I would be able to do anywhere else.
Havensky - Today at 7:14 PM
I study political science and do a lot of writing for work, this was a way to exsersise a different part of my brain. I got started on NS for the simulation stuff and got hooked into the RP world
Kyrusia - Today at 7:15 PM
(One should also not forget that NS is painfully addictive. Once you're here, you can never leave.)
Zark - Today at 7:15 PM
My situation is pretty much the same as Gren's, honestly, NS was my first serious roleplaying experience and the community that I found here has made it so that I have no desire to check out other roleplaying forums.
Swith - Today at 7:15 PM
That, too.
Gren - Today at 7:16 PM
I believe the NSG Old Guard has a reference for that, Kyru. Hotel California.
Cer - Today at 7:16 PM
It's a more-intelligent site, as far as users and set-up goes. It's themed around a concept (make a nation) but didn't limit itself to only that. It gives people the chance to do more than voice an opinion on current topics, or click gameside things to develop a nation. There's a wit to it, and to its users. We have freedoms (but not so many that we become a crap site) and the ability to put in as much as we get out of it.
Giovenith - Today at 7:16 PM
The culture of NS RP is a Goldilocks zone between fun and formality. There's no shortage of games where things are taken seriously - no text-chat and spamming of anime and scene girl images - but that doesn't mean you won't be able to find something accommodating if you're not used to playing big.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:16 PM
Must concur with Cer, if I may: everything about NS is built around, "You get out what you put in."
Cer - Today at 7:17 PM
I really don't see any other sites providing all that NS does to its users. And that Goldilocks Zone is priceless.(edited)
Gren - Today at 7:18 PM
I think another big thing NS does is it brings in new blood.
Maltropia - Today at 7:19 PM
I joined NS coming from Paradox Interactive's forums (I was very into Europa Universalis at the time, and a casual AAR-writer). The chance and environment to create the entire history, geography and culture of an entire country that has never existed is just a fantastic creative outlet. I don't think anywhere really gives you the opportunity to put so many ideas onto paper.
Swith - Today at 7:19 PM
Question 2: From WPT "I have heard before that there is a bit of a divide between NationStates (forum) and other forums like II in that people who RP in NationStates generally are professional whilst II is more heavily populated by newer, lower quality RPers (espically in summer). How do you guys feel about this? Do you feel there is a bit of a divide between II and NationStates in terms of general quality?"
Welcome, Maltropia. May we call you 'Malt'?
Maltropia - Today at 7:20 PM
Malt works. Malt does too. Go wild.
Gren - Today at 7:20 PM
I'm going to be honest. My first forum post fit that exact stereotype. I wasn't even in the RP, I just posted in the thread.
Maltropia - Today at 7:20 PM
Mal*. Heck.
Lamoni - Today at 7:22 PM
Well, I personally would put that down to preference, rather than who is or is not professional. II generally tends to get new RPers because they don't know what NS is about, and just want to play soldier. Some of them move beyond that to become the next generation of NS RPers, but not all of them do. And that is okay.
Giovenith - Today at 7:23 PM
I think this perception mostly exists because newcomers are obviously here primarily for the ability to pretend to run a nation. That's what's advertised on the site, it isn't really until you get familiar with the community that you realize NS has a non-nation-related side. Thus, in the initial days of finding ways to do what they came here to do and pretend to run a country, the most obvious destination of a newbie would be International Incidents, the place to write about the going-on's of one's nation. That doesn't make II of inferior quality, there's tons of great stuff there, it's just the purpose of the subforum is attractive to newer, more inexperienced players.(edited)
Cer - Today at 7:23 PM
I've heard (and seen) the divide. But it isn't that one forum has substandard work. One form tends to have looser games. War is a popular element, and new players want to dive right in. That's why we have Mentors - people to teach them how to get full enjoyment out of RP. However, the NS subforum is more diplomacy, and you'll find less war and more networking on a large scale.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:23 PM
Glad this question was asked.
Frankly, I think there's a bit of truth, but I think that truth is overblown. I make no qualms about spending most of my personal time roleplaying on the forums in II. That means, over the years, I have seen both excellent roleplays, and ones I would not define in positive terms. I don't think, however, that II (or NS) has a monopoly on poor player behaviors (or good ones).
I think II sometimes gets a bad rep because a lot of players come onto the forums, read about roleplaying, and want to start a war. "International Incidents" is, generally, the best place to do that. Hence, there is a large volume of newer players unfamiliar with community standards - or even roleplaying in general - jumping into the tussle immediately.
Beyond that, I simply think that NSers (board goers) and IIers attract different playstyles; in the same token, however, there is a lot of overlap. I, personally, do not see the so-called "division" being as pronounced as sometimes claimed - certainly not like it seems to once have been.
I also think, to be blunt, people tend to forget we all started somewhere. There's no shame in making mistakes, only failing to recognize they have been made and refusing to seek to better yourself.
Cer - Today at 7:25 PM
Exactly, Kyru.
Swith - Today at 7:25 PM
Question 3 Posed by Lord Vyse to N&I panelists: "What basics do you need before you can really get into role playing with your nation and the best way to go about getting them done?"
Gren - Today at 7:26 PM
I totally agree with Lamoni. II seemed like where all the action was, and felt like a good way to dip my toes in. Of course, intruding on two other people's RP probably wasn't the best way to do that. That's why I'm glad we have a mentor program now, to help ease mistakes like that.
Lamoni - Today at 7:29 PM
The first basic is to come up with even a barebones idea of what your nation is, and how it would interact with others. NS gives us a lot of freedom to work on things like this. You could be anything from a religiously fanatic nation, to an iron-fisted dictatorship, to a liberal democracy, and beyond. But it is important to have a concept for your nation that you like, and to flesh it out over time, which is known as worldbuilding. The second basic is good characters, which is also part of worldbuilding (deciding who is going to populate the world that you've created). Once you have those two things down, you can really start to interact with other nations in interesting ways that might even surprise you.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:30 PM
I, personally, tend to see two general "schools" of this, regarding Question #3. On the one hand, a lot of people learn best through experience; you see a lot of people recommending getting some fundamentals down, then just diving into roleplay. I think this can work; I think a lot of us first learned the ropes this way.
By the same token, I also often see players recommending others to get to learn the community first (in an OOC capacity), doing research, and worldbuilding a "working" foundation (as opposed to just a skeleton) before diving in. I think it fundamentally depends on how the player in question tends to learn as to which is "best."
I, personally, am generally of the latter school, but as some of our FT Mentors (and contributors) can tell you, I am a worldbuilding perfectionist and more than a bit anal retentive with regards to my concepts.
As for what basics I would simply not do without?
- A name, obviously.
- An outline of the history of the state in question; doesn't need to be long, but it need be there.
- A basic image of the culture you intend to create and roleplay.
- An idea of your "thematic leads," as it were; namely the characters you intend to introduce early on. Often these are the leaders of your state, though not necessarily.
Swith - Today at 7:31 PM
Quetion 4 Posed by Rhodevus: "Maybe as sort of a quick introductory question for those of use who don't have much experience talking to the mentors and mods: What is your favourite/Most Used Forum and why are you pulled to it more than the others?"
Maltropia - Today at 7:32 PM
I'd just like to add that, in a lot of ways, RP is an opportunity to create the basics of your nation. That's not a catch-22; you start writing and you come up with stuff as you go. You realise there are holes that need to be filled and you come up with something to fill them. Over time you realise you could've done something better - maybe you don't like having a president and eighteen prime ministers after all - and you rewrite. It's lovely to spend days planning your nation, but the best way to see what works is to put it into practice, even if there's not a whole lot there yet. It has to start somewhere: why not in a roleplay?
Swith - Today at 7:33 PM
[Also, a quick rundown of terminology, per request: II is International Incidents, NS is NationStates (the RP subforum). Together, they make up N&I. P2TM is Portal to the Multiverse. F7 is Forum 7. Together, they make up the non-nation RP and forum game area known as Fifth Dimension.]
Kyrusia - Today at 7:33 PM
Most used? Hah. Moderation. /unfunny joke
But I tend to use II chiefly, as noted before, but I do (and have done) a fair share in NS and F&NI. I also did some stuff in GE&T ages ago. Some of the P2TMers have also been trying to rope me in. :stuck_out_tongue:
Lamoni - Today at 7:33 PM
My most used forum would be II, followed by GE&T. II because of all the possibilities that it presents for interacting with others, and GE&T because I also like designing military equipment for NS.
Cer - Today at 7:34 PM
My favorite sub forum is P2TM. It gives me liberty to run whatever my heart is into at any given moment. My second favorite is NS (the subforum). I enjoy diplomacy games.
Zark - Today at 7:34 PM
My most used forum is definitely P2TM, quite simply because I enjoy roleplaying while not being necessarily constrained to a single genre/theme/canon, and P2TM is the place to go for that.
Zwangzug - Today at 7:36 PM
Most used: NS Sports. Like I said, I like having one little event to RP about at a time, that flows into a larger continuity/storyline, and the possibility to RP from the point of view of a character or group of characters who aren't necessarily the most important or prestigious in the country (but still worldbuilding my nation as I go along).
Giovenith - Today at 7:36 PM
P2TM, definitely. Like others said, there's more freedom there. Nationplay requires a bit of technical knowledge about how governments function, and I'm still too stupid to understand how Sports actually works - real life or RP!
Swith - Today at 7:36 PM
Question 5 Pitched via PM to our NS Sports Panelists: "What is NS Sports? Is it role play, or is it fantasy sports? Does RP happen there?"
Kyrusia - Today at 7:37 PM
It's voodoo! xP
Swith - Today at 7:37 PM
(
)
Giovenith - Today at 7:37 PM
(What an appropriate transition :stuck_out_tongue: )
Zwangzug - Today at 7:37 PM
Hi! It's roleplay about (usually RL) sports taking place in NS countries, based on the results of a weighted random number generator.
Lamoni - Today at 7:38 PM
And it can be quite fun, too.
Zwangzug - Today at 7:38 PM
(I'll be giving more detailed thread/panel later in the week to hopefully answer more questions.)
Swith - Today at 7:39 PM
Question 6 posed by Ard_Rí "How do you keep RP interesting without the interactivity or hard statistics of a game? After all the only real progress you make is determined by what you say you make. How do you stop RP from getting stale when there's no challenge to really achieving something?"
Zwangzug - Today at 7:39 PM
But yes, the roleplay that happens is usually based on the results of the sports, like an article about a football match or a character-based introspection of an Olympic runner.
sorry, go ahead :smiley:
Swith - Today at 7:39 PM
(It's all good, Zwang. I've advised them to hunt you down via PM if they want more details.)(edited)
Zark - Today at 7:43 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't say a priori that there's "no challenge to really achieving something" in a roleplay. This is something that depends on the roleplay's OP. If the OP provides hurdles for the players and their characters (or nations, given the case) to overcome, thus creating tension, a roleplay can remain interesting despite the lack of hard statistics. Conversely, a videogame that is too easy might not be able to maintain a player's interest even despite the hard statistics and such. I believe it's all a matter of how it's handled. It is up to the OP to come up with situations and create tension in their roleplay.
Cer - Today at 7:43 PM
From a P2TM standpoint, you keep your RP interesting by keeping your players interested. All games have some hard stats to them (even if it's just a character app). Expand upon it by allowing characters to grow. Give your players challenges to aid in that growth. Design stories that intrigue them. Communication with your players is key. Gauge their interest often, and don't be afraid to ask them if they want more out of something, or less of certain elements.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:43 PM
This question (#6) will depend on who you ask and their playstyle, I imagine. Even so: one can reach goals and achieve them without hard statistics; I also feel interactivity is a basic pre-requisite of roleplaying on NationStates (excusing things like one-shorts and short-stories). Roleplaying is, fundamentally, a collaborative piece of fiction; sometimes that includes competitive elements, but not always.
As for me, personally, it has a lot to do with setting reasonable limits for your concepts, maintaining balance, reaching compromise with others, and being consistent with regards to the internal strictures you apply to your concept. I feel that largely goes for any tech level or board.
It's true, players can just say they have and accomplish whatever, but what is the actual fun in that? For me, the build-up, development, and hurdles are a part of the fun; the writing of that, for me, is the interesting bit. The writing of that, also, tends to account for a justification of the accomplishment (or failure). Plot, in my view, tends to dictate all.
Giovenith - Today at 7:44 PM
This is a pretty tricky question to answer, because a lot of it boils down to just what kind of person you are and what sorts of interests you already have. Not everybody is predisposed to games or media involving set rules of interaction or statistics (such as video games or tabletops) in the first place. For me, I was a bookworm growing up, not a gamer, so I innately have some understanding and appreciation for the more fluid, abstract form of entertainment based in story-telling and human thinking rather than counting and tool strategy.
Swith - Today at 7:47 PM
Question 7 Posed by Essexia - "Quite often, I've noticed that I spend a lot more time thinking about how I should RP, rather than typing out an RP itself. I keep thinking of things like "how would my country's politicians talk to each other" or "what would a diplomatic letter look like." Are there some tips so I can get out of this cycle where I'm spending much more time looking for examples to base my writing off of, and just actually start writing?"
Giovenith - Today at 7:49 PM
The most obvious way would be to actually put your theories into action with your friends. Of course, we don't always have the opportunity to just get up and do whatever kind of story we want. In that case, independent stories, or as they're more commonly known as "oneshots," are a great way for many people to spill ideas from their heads about their characters and worlds that aren't immediately applicable to the game. Oneshots are fun to write and fun to read for friends, and a great way to fine-tune your writing and characterization.
Lamoni - Today at 7:50 PM
I agree with Gio here, one shots can help you test things out until you're happy with them. As for how politicians would talk to each other, well, they are people just like anyone else. They just have duties that allow them to tell other people what to do.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:51 PM
Independent motivation is something I think every RPer struggles with at times - including self-doubt about themselves as an RPer in general. My advice? Just do it. Make yourself. Sit down and write, even if you end-up hating what you produce; you don't necessarily have to post it, but the practice will help you develop your own voice, style, and focus.
"Oneshots," short-story threads (for many players), or nation maintenance threads (generally just for the OP) are a good way to practice, experiment with concepts, and create/feed your concepts in general.
Swith - Today at 7:56 PM
Question 8 posed by Ched "When you begin to RP on a forum in NS, do you start with envisioning a character first? Or do you start with their home, like a nation, empire, or kingdom, etc? And why?"
Kyrusia - Today at 7:56 PM
Maltropia You're not. You're just suffering from delusions of grandeur. It's okay. We accept you nonetheless. We just blame you for everything.
Maltropia - Today at 7:57 PM
Kyrusia's answering questions out of turn! Someone call the mods!
Swith - Today at 7:57 PM
Kyrusia Follow-up Question: posed by Essexia "Can I ask what Kyrusia meant by "nation maintenance threads" ?"
Lamoni - Today at 7:58 PM
Either way is a perfectly valid way to start, Chad. Both the people and their nation are important, it is just a matter of where you want to start.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:58 PM
Q8: TBH? It varies. I've created RP threads, nations, etc. from a single scene or vibe I felt when conceptualizing. I think it depends on your personal style and what works for you. That's something you sort of just have to experiment with. My personal suggestion for this hurdle? Think-up a set of eyes - doesn't need to be a full character yet - and just write a scene from their daily life using that rough estimations and themes you do have in mind.
Giovenith - Today at 7:58 PM
Characters first. Places of origin only exist as they are because of the type of people who live there, so it's easier for me to create a person and then try to imagine what sort of place could have created that person. Once the place of origin is created though, often it takes on its own separate life and it can start to in turn have an influence on the character(s) and not just the other way around.
Zwangzug - Today at 7:58 PM
As a sports RPer this might not be typical, but I actually start some level in between. I have the idea of my country in mind, but then for a competition that I enter I often come up with a list of characters who are competing. Then I need to think about how well-established they'll be in the nation itself; will they be covered by the national propaganda newspaper? Or a ragtag bunch of misfits who get "quirky slice of life" profiles? Figuring out where they stand gives me my approach for the thread.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:59 PM
essexia Nation Maintenance Threads are, in effect, ways to just write about your nation without greater involvement in an RP thread. Often they are single viginettes into a character's life or some setting; other times they can have a series of stories.
In another way: it's an easy way to write something every day about your concepts without needing to dedicate your time to another RP thread.
Zark - Today at 8:00 PM
Re:Q8, I think it largely depends on the setting of the roleplay in question. If it is set in the modern world we all know and love/hate, then perhaps it may be less important to envision their home; their home already exists, and it is arguably more important to envision a character that fits their origin. In, say, a fantasy or sci-fi roleplay, I think either could work: you could try thinking of a character you like and then ponder what kind of environment could have produced a person like that, or alternatively, you could have an idea of a kingdom (or whatever) that you're rather fond of, develop it, and subsequently create characters to breathe life into that kingdom and represent it.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:00 PM
To add: they're ongoing threads, often with many viginettes. Not just a single viginette each time.
essexia forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=260509&sid=250c073027ff943b413d78ba90422304 Example of an NMT.(edited)
I see a typing frfs !
FRFS - Today at 8:02 PM
(#8) Personally, I usually work outside in, rather than inside out. I tend to think of the big picture first. And then work my way to the smaller details. Start with a large brush and then re-work things as I move along. Characters are something that I've always produced last, at one point in time they were usually afterthoughts to me (gasp), way behing story and setting. I find that setting the stage and knowing how the story moves along helps me think of how people would react and how they would grow and change through the story. And that helps me get into a mindset for characters. So for me getting together the setting and story, actually helps me think of characters.
Swith - Today at 8:02 PM
Question 9 Via PM and directed to Mods and Mentors. "What's it like being site staff? Do you scan forums for trouble? Do you work close with Mods. Like do Mods send people to you when [the player is] doing bad on forums? Is it a stressful thing? Or scary to mentor or mod people?"
Lamoni - Today at 8:04 PM
Well, mentors are not mods, and do not have mod powers. We do tend to work closely with the mod staff (Kyru in particular), and the mods will refer people who might need our help to us. Being a mentor is not all fun and games, but when you see someone who needed your help become a good and productive member of the roleplay community, there is a certain satisfaction. I've never come across anything during my time as a mentor that scared me, though.
Cer - Today at 8:05 PM
It isn't scary or stressful. To be an effective mentor, you have to be willing to listen and help, and to encourage people. Your own ego has to take the back burner. Your role is to help them become stronger writers, designers, players, and site members. You also have to know when you're in over your head. Nobody has all the answers. As we say in the Program, "We might not know the answer, but we know someone that does". It's a team effort.
Giovenith - Today at 8:06 PM
It's not so bad. It really just takes common sense, patience, and the ability to articulate yourself well. We usually know when we're outmatched though, and anything one might consider "scary" is usually the Mods' business.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:07 PM
Q9: "Yes."
Let's break this down: "What's it like being site staff?" - To be honest, I tend to not think about it this way; I think about it like I'm just any other player that has volunteered their time. That's, really, what all of us are.
"Do you scan forums for trouble?" - Yes. I generally have my head on a swivel, but not 24/7. We rely on reports from players a lot, both as Moderators and - to a lesser degree - as Mentors. While I wouldn't make a habit of bugging Mentors constantly, directing players you think may need some help to us isn't a bad idea at all.
"Do you work close with Mods. Like do Mods send people to you when [the player is] doing bad on forums?" - Working with Mods is a part of it, as you can see. Mods will, at times, point Mentors to threads or players where their expertise is better suited and when rules have not been broken. Mentors aren't Mods, but they work with us in close proximity fairly regularly. They also help point players to the rules and generally act as someone "working in the trenches," as it were.
"Is it a stressful thing? Or scary to mentor or mod people?" - It can be stressful, but I wouldn't say "scary." Stress is only ever as bad as you let it get; everyone is prone to that sometimes. It's good to remember that not only are we still players, but that despite our jackets we can still actually just play the game.
For me, personally, stress is a function of my time constantly being ever-more constricted. :stuck_out_tongue:
Swith - Today at 8:09 PM
(I'll add that, as Mentors, we're often put in a position of trust. Mentors do take your concerns seriously, and are not afraid to approach Mods to ask for advice on your behalf, though we urge you to file your own reports... even a GHR, if you don't want to make your report public... if you see OSRS rule-breaking.)
Kyrusia - Today at 8:10 PM
Quite.
Swith - Today at 8:10 PM
Question 10 via Alev - "How do you make a basic army without having to do hours of research before even your first roleplay, but not be completely unrealistic and therefor unfair?"
Gren - Today at 8:10 PM
I don't think its possible.
Lamoni - Today at 8:11 PM
Making a military with no knowledge of what a military is, what it does, and how it does it is simply not possible. Though that doesn't stop people from trying.
Gren - Today at 8:11 PM
Its one of those things where the options are mutually exclusive.
Swith - Today at 8:12 PM
[Tues July 11 7PM EST is War and Storytelling - a panel with Macabees, Lamoni, and a few others]
Giovenith - Today at 8:12 PM
You don't.
Don't mean to shoot it down, but the military isn't just a random assortment of guys in camo with guns. It's all about detailed organization and tactics. There is no conceivable way to run a realistic military without research.
Gren - Today at 8:12 PM
You either put in the work to make it decent, or you accept the fact that its going to be sub-par.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:12 PM
Q10: Define "realism."
If you're operating under the notion that "realism" is "emulating reality," it can be unfair. If you're using "realism" in the literary sense, it just need be "real" relative to the defined setting.
But regardless, even in FT - where particle beam weapons and naval engagements where each salvo is in the multi-megaton range is the norm - you still need a basic understanding of combat and its purpose and limitations to design your military. This means research, both onsite and off. "Pew Pew Laz0rs" or "TOWs" are, fundamentally, window dressing.
Remember: you get out what you put in.(edited)
Gren - Today at 8:12 PM
Personally, the research is half of the fun, at least for me.
Swith - Today at 8:13 PM
As this can be covered in greater detail later this week, would the panelists mind moving to the next question?
Lamoni - Today at 8:13 PM
And for me.
What is the next question, Swith?
Kyrusia - Today at 8:13 PM
^
Swith - Today at 8:13 PM
Question 11 posed by Eridani Imperium - "A question for the mentors, and a bone for Kyru: How do you handle religion IC? To what extent would you go to write up your own religion, and what would be some good sources for ideas, other than the Religion how-to thread we already have up?"
Lamoni - Today at 8:15 PM
I actually wrote a guide on "How to make a successful religion on NS." www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=759149 It all starts with what you want your religion to do, and how you want it to go about doing that.
Then? More research.
You're going to find that research is a really big thing on NS.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:16 PM
Q11: I doubt "extremes" alone would be an answer Swith would accept. But, even so: extremes.
That being said, I treat religion as a function of culture; they feed into (and off) one another. Depending on the degree of role religion plays in your society will help determine how broad (and deep) that impact is.
And, frankly, religion is my favorite bit. I could go on it for days, but that's true for any worldbuilding. The answer is, "You'll never be finished; you'll just get to a point it's workable."
As for inspiration: I tend to look to historical philosophies and perspectives. That also means research, namely into history, religious philosphy, theology, unique cultural traditions and mores, and how these have formed into unique cultures and impacted the politics of their time.
Giovenith - Today at 8:17 PM
I am fascinated by religion. It's interesting how the human need to understand and survive in their unique environments crafts a mythology. Religion is often a big influence on behavior. There is something of a danger when creating an imaginary religion, however, of making all its followers blind fanatics: consider religion in real life, where people have varying degrees of devotion and different interpretations about what they're commanded to do. Often it is in watching a character reconcile their religious beliefs with the situations they are presented with that is the best part of writing it.
Cer - Today at 8:17 PM
I use and tweak religion heavily in my non-nation games, and when crafting my nations. It depends on how dominant an element I want it to be. As the others have said - research is everything. The more you put in, the more you'll get out. Don't be afraid to explore.
Swith - Today at 8:19 PM
Question 12 posed by Ched - "When starting a character, where is the line drawn with what is decidedly too mundane or OP in that character's capabilities, what's the main factor that decides the acceptable "level of playing" for them? Same with nations in how too small is starting it very simple stupid or making it OP to start off with? Where should the balance be overall decided?"
Gren - Today at 8:21 PM
I say it depends on the setting.
Giovenith - Today at 8:22 PM
You should always try to start with what you're familiar with. If you've never played a superpowered character before, you might want to ease your way in with a normal human and draw from personal experience. Ultimately, no matter what the power level, all good characters and stories rely on the same basic foundations of common sense. As the saying goes, "You have to know the rules before you break them" - start with something less likely to cause damage, and as you master that, you'll be able to steadily climb up the latter and try bigger concepts.
FRFS - Today at 8:23 PM
Q12 : There are really two limitations you're gonna want to keep in mind. What is settled between you and whoever you are roleplaying with, internally in the RP. And also what is accepted by the community at large. That is why interaction in whatever community between the members of the community are so important. An agreeable level of abilities can be decided within the RP itself, internally by all parties involved. Which may fall in line with the community standards, or perhaps be bent for Plot. And in the community itself, overtime will develop natural rules and laws for abilities based off what has continually worked, and what hasn't.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:23 PM
Q12: In a lot of ways, it'll depend upon who you want to roleplay with. Your roleplay partners - and, more broadly, the community you are in as a whole - will tend to dictate what is or is not acceptable and help provide a litmus as to where you should probably adjust things (or not). I always tend to follow Hyperspatial Travel's litmus for stuff about this: "Ask. Ask everyone." Not just the new guy, not jus the guy you joined the thread with, but everyone you see.
Also, a lot need be said for your gut in situations such as this. If you're consistently concerned about something being OP, your gut is likely telling you something. Beyond that: again, everyone starts somewhere; work your way up and work into the field by learning.(edited)
Cer - Today at 8:24 PM
When in doubt, ask. There's no shame in admitting you're feeling lost or don't know how to do something. N&I, NS Sports, and P2TM all have open and vibrant communities willing to help you learn how to play new characters, concepts, etc.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:24 PM
^
Lamoni - Today at 8:24 PM
^
Giovenith - Today at 8:24 PM
^^
Kyrusia - Today at 8:24 PM
^^
Giovenith - Today at 8:25 PM
^^^
Lamoni - Today at 8:25 PM
^^^^
Gren - Today at 8:25 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Kyrusia - Today at 8:25 PM
We're all spammers at heart.
Giovenith - Today at 8:25 PM
(Your role models, ladies and gents.)
Maltropia - Today at 8:25 PM
8 July 2017: the day the world ran out of ^s.
Lamoni - Today at 8:26 PM
In case there was any doubt, mentors and mods are just like anyone else. We like to spam and have fun as much as anyone.
Swith - Today at 8:26 PM
Final Question
Question 13 Posed by Rhodevus - "What is something you would like to see more of in RP? Both in terms of what more players should do and in terms of styles/genres of RP."
Cer - Today at 8:26 PM
Keep adding imagination, regardless of where you haunt. Fresh ideas. :stuck_out_tongue:
Lamoni - Today at 8:27 PM
Never let the RP community go stale. Fresh ideas are always good.
Zwangzug - Today at 8:27 PM
Humor without cynicism! Not just taking yourself too seriously, not being edgy and too pretentious, but being clever and quickwitted like the game itself. Whether that takes the form of poking at the fourth wall, in-jokes with other users, or something else amusing, keep being optimistic and funny.
Zark - Today at 8:28 PM
In terms of what players should do, I believe cooperation is a big one. I know for a fact that there are some roleplays where cooperative posts are a commonplace thing, but in my experience the larger part of the community does not tend to practice collaborative posts, and I think they're a beautiful thing for setting a scene or playing out a particularly important event in a roleplay. Unrelatedly (and perhaps even on the opposite side of things), I also enjoy one-shots, I think they should be more popular.
In terms of styles and genres, well, there can never be enough sci-fantasy
Also shipping, there can never be enough shipping. nods
Kyrusia - Today at 8:28 PM
Q13: More thorough dedication to consistency and the maintaining of their individual "worlds." Nothing turns me off more than reading through something only to find the OP contradicting their own, self-espoused concepts left and right.
In terms of styles/genre? BANKING AND FINANCE! Kidding (sorta). Intrigue, though, to be honest. Intrigue and players thinking farther ahead for their concepts beyond just the next post. Sure, you'll always have to adjust, but some long-game planning can never hurt - it also can serve to add greater depth.
Gren - Today at 8:28 PM
What Zwang said. Stole the words from my mouth.
And what Kyru said.
Giovenith - Today at 8:29 PM
I'd like to see more dedication to community and to one's creations. A lot of people seem to forget that a good RP comes from continuous work, not just from how cool your app or OP post is. If you really want to shine, you have to get to know the people you're playing with and continue to build on what you've made, not just jump ship the second you get even slightly bored.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:29 PM
Also because I like spies and stabbing my "allies" in the back a lot. :smile:
Tilt - Today at 8:29 PM
Since this is the last question I don't feel so bad about chiming in unexpectedly. (Sudden data connection.) Just a chance to experience something new, either as a player or an OP.
Also hi everyone.
Swith - Today at 8:30 PM
Welcome, Tilt.
Tilt - Today at 8:30 PM
o/
Gren - Today at 8:30 PM
To piggyback on what Gio said, if you're with a good group, and the RP is right for that group, you shouldn't be getting bored in the first place.
Which isn't to say that you should jump ship if you find yourself getting bored.
Swith - Today at 8:30 PM
I believe we've run out of time. Let's give our panelist a chance to relax before the next session begins. We can take our conversation (and silly banter!) to #ns_mentors .(edited)
NS Roleplay Symposium 2017
TIME: COMPLETED
Thank you all for participating in today's panel! We look forward to seeing you back soon. The next, "Differences and Similarities: Fifth Dimension and N&I", starts in a half hour (9EST)
LOCATION: Symposium Hall
TOPIC: NS Roleplay Symposium 2017 and Mentor Program Introduction
TIME: 7PM - 8:30 PM Eastern (2300 - 1230 GMT) Saturday, July 8th
Good evening and welcome to our first panel of the Symposium. I'm Swith, one of the Symposium planners. I'm your discussion moderator for this session.
I'd like to take a moment to thank our evening's contributors for helping us kick off our event! I invite each of them to take a moment to introduce themselves and give us their initial thoughts regarding the Symposium or, if a Mentor, their thoughts regarding the Mentor Program itself. We'll then open up the Q&A period.
I also thank guests for their patience. We will pull your questions from the #questions_chamber. To make it easier on us, please keep chatter to the main #ns_mentors channel. Please do NOT post anything in the #symposium_hall unless you are on the panel. Thank you.
BEGIN
::
Cer - Today at 7:01 PM
I'm Cer, one of the Roleplay Mentors for P2TM. I've been on the site for a long while, off and on. Though I used to participate in gameplay and NS RP, I predominately haunt P2TM now. It's nice to see a site-wide symposium for roleplayers. It's a good way to bring us together and a broader community.
Swith - Today at 7:01 PM
Welcome, Cer.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:02 PM
I'm Kyru. N&I RP Mentor specializing in Future Tech. I've formerly been involved in Modern Tech and Post-Modern Tech as well (with a sprinkling of FanT). I oversee the Mentor Program as an NS Game Moderator. Inb4 "ask me anything."
Swith - Today at 7:03 PM
Welcome, Kyru.
Zark - Today at 7:04 PM
Hello there, I'm Zark (Zarkenis Ultima on the forums), I've been RPing for about six years, first in F7 and then in P2TM, where I prowl to this day. I'm happy to have the chance to help other players as a Mentor, and I look forward to seeing this symposium bring the site's roleplaying community together.
Swith - Today at 7:04 PM
Welcome, Zark.
Zwangzug - Today at 7:04 PM
I'm Zwangzug, a sports RPer who's been on and off for about ten years. (I'm also a newbie issues editor!) Looking forward to explaining what we do in our little niche and hopefully answering any burning questions that you have. :smiley:
Swith - Today at 7:05 PM
Welcome, Zwangzug. May we call you by a shorter nick?
Zwangzug - Today at 7:06 PM
Zwang is good!
Swith - Today at 7:06 PM
TY
Havensky - Today at 7:06 PM
Hello! I'm Havensky, II Mentor and member of the Gholgoth Region
Zwangzug - Today at 7:06 PM
No problem
Swith - Today at 7:06 PM
Welcome, Haven.
Lamoni - Today at 7:06 PM
Hello, I am Lamoni. I've been on Nationstates since 2002, generally haunting II, GE&T, and F&NI. I'm also a mentor, and have done many things on NS. It is nice to meat everyone, and I look forward to answering questions!
FRFS - Today at 7:06 PM
Hello, I’m FRFS. I’m a FT Player, but I’ll be a contributor to the Symposium on various panels throughout the week. It should be a fun time for all, and a great way to share ideas and learn from one another.
Swith - Today at 7:06 PM
We have a few more intros before we jump to some questions.
Welcome, Lamoni and FRFS.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:07 PM
As an aside, I do hope all our panels include homonym-based typos.
Swith - Today at 7:07 PM
(If I'm on it, they will. nods)
Giovenith - Today at 7:07 PM
Hello! It's a-me, Giovenith. I'm a P2TM player, here since 2012. It's great to see things coming together!
Swith - Today at 7:08 PM
Welcome, Gio.
Gren - Today at 7:09 PM
I'm Gren (Grenartia), and I'm not a mentor, and most people would probably recognize me from NSG (cue the shouts of "Boo! Hiss!") but I am fairly involved in P2TM, mainly with a focus on historical and sci-fi RPs. I've been on the site since 2010, and I've been in RP since 2013. I look forward to this week's events, and to forwarding (and answering) your questions.
Swith - Today at 7:10 PM
Welcome, Gren.
Our first question is one commonly asked: Why do you, as players, roleplay on NationStates rather than on other roleplay-oriented forums? In other words, what (in your opinion) is special about NS, and sets it apart from other sites?
Gren - Today at 7:12 PM
Honestly, NS was my introduction to RP (as I think it was to many of us in the community).
Zwangzug - Today at 7:13 PM
A lot of roleplay forums feel open-ended and like there's no clear end goal in sight. Either there will be a lot of hoops to jump through at the start, or there will be not very much writing quality, and my motivation tends to fizzle out. But on NS, crafting my nation in a "one day at a time" kind of thing lets me go at my own pace and give me new stimulation.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:14 PM
Well, to be frank, NationStates wasn't where I started.
I started ages ago on chatrooms, believe it or not; eventually I found, however, that my style of posting (ask around: I fail at summarization) was better suited for forums. I got pointed to NS as a joke. I've been here since - with the occassional absence.
As for what is special about NS? My word. That's something you could dedicate the entire Symposium toward. Regardless, if I had to pick one thing (for the sake of brevity, youll thank me later), it's the raw degree of both quality and general diversity in thoughts and ideas. I've seen people come-up with some remarkable things on this site over the years, and without the unique way in which NS and its various communities work, I don't think we'd have that.
Lamoni - Today at 7:14 PM
I like RPing on NS because of the community. I've made many friends here over the long-haul, and the friendships can really keep things going. NS was also my introduction to written RPing. I also enjoy worldbuilding my nation, a day at a time. There is a large amount of freedom on NS, and you can do a lot of things that I haven't really felt like I would be able to do anywhere else.
Havensky - Today at 7:14 PM
I study political science and do a lot of writing for work, this was a way to exsersise a different part of my brain. I got started on NS for the simulation stuff and got hooked into the RP world
Kyrusia - Today at 7:15 PM
(One should also not forget that NS is painfully addictive. Once you're here, you can never leave.)
Zark - Today at 7:15 PM
My situation is pretty much the same as Gren's, honestly, NS was my first serious roleplaying experience and the community that I found here has made it so that I have no desire to check out other roleplaying forums.
Swith - Today at 7:15 PM
That, too.
Gren - Today at 7:16 PM
I believe the NSG Old Guard has a reference for that, Kyru. Hotel California.
Cer - Today at 7:16 PM
It's a more-intelligent site, as far as users and set-up goes. It's themed around a concept (make a nation) but didn't limit itself to only that. It gives people the chance to do more than voice an opinion on current topics, or click gameside things to develop a nation. There's a wit to it, and to its users. We have freedoms (but not so many that we become a crap site) and the ability to put in as much as we get out of it.
Giovenith - Today at 7:16 PM
The culture of NS RP is a Goldilocks zone between fun and formality. There's no shortage of games where things are taken seriously - no text-chat and spamming of anime and scene girl images - but that doesn't mean you won't be able to find something accommodating if you're not used to playing big.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:16 PM
Must concur with Cer, if I may: everything about NS is built around, "You get out what you put in."
Cer - Today at 7:17 PM
I really don't see any other sites providing all that NS does to its users. And that Goldilocks Zone is priceless.(edited)
Gren - Today at 7:18 PM
I think another big thing NS does is it brings in new blood.
Maltropia - Today at 7:19 PM
I joined NS coming from Paradox Interactive's forums (I was very into Europa Universalis at the time, and a casual AAR-writer). The chance and environment to create the entire history, geography and culture of an entire country that has never existed is just a fantastic creative outlet. I don't think anywhere really gives you the opportunity to put so many ideas onto paper.
Swith - Today at 7:19 PM
Question 2: From WPT "I have heard before that there is a bit of a divide between NationStates (forum) and other forums like II in that people who RP in NationStates generally are professional whilst II is more heavily populated by newer, lower quality RPers (espically in summer). How do you guys feel about this? Do you feel there is a bit of a divide between II and NationStates in terms of general quality?"
Welcome, Maltropia. May we call you 'Malt'?
Maltropia - Today at 7:20 PM
Malt works. Malt does too. Go wild.
Gren - Today at 7:20 PM
I'm going to be honest. My first forum post fit that exact stereotype. I wasn't even in the RP, I just posted in the thread.
Maltropia - Today at 7:20 PM
Mal*. Heck.
Lamoni - Today at 7:22 PM
Well, I personally would put that down to preference, rather than who is or is not professional. II generally tends to get new RPers because they don't know what NS is about, and just want to play soldier. Some of them move beyond that to become the next generation of NS RPers, but not all of them do. And that is okay.
Giovenith - Today at 7:23 PM
I think this perception mostly exists because newcomers are obviously here primarily for the ability to pretend to run a nation. That's what's advertised on the site, it isn't really until you get familiar with the community that you realize NS has a non-nation-related side. Thus, in the initial days of finding ways to do what they came here to do and pretend to run a country, the most obvious destination of a newbie would be International Incidents, the place to write about the going-on's of one's nation. That doesn't make II of inferior quality, there's tons of great stuff there, it's just the purpose of the subforum is attractive to newer, more inexperienced players.(edited)
Cer - Today at 7:23 PM
I've heard (and seen) the divide. But it isn't that one forum has substandard work. One form tends to have looser games. War is a popular element, and new players want to dive right in. That's why we have Mentors - people to teach them how to get full enjoyment out of RP. However, the NS subforum is more diplomacy, and you'll find less war and more networking on a large scale.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:23 PM
Glad this question was asked.
Frankly, I think there's a bit of truth, but I think that truth is overblown. I make no qualms about spending most of my personal time roleplaying on the forums in II. That means, over the years, I have seen both excellent roleplays, and ones I would not define in positive terms. I don't think, however, that II (or NS) has a monopoly on poor player behaviors (or good ones).
I think II sometimes gets a bad rep because a lot of players come onto the forums, read about roleplaying, and want to start a war. "International Incidents" is, generally, the best place to do that. Hence, there is a large volume of newer players unfamiliar with community standards - or even roleplaying in general - jumping into the tussle immediately.
Beyond that, I simply think that NSers (board goers) and IIers attract different playstyles; in the same token, however, there is a lot of overlap. I, personally, do not see the so-called "division" being as pronounced as sometimes claimed - certainly not like it seems to once have been.
I also think, to be blunt, people tend to forget we all started somewhere. There's no shame in making mistakes, only failing to recognize they have been made and refusing to seek to better yourself.
Cer - Today at 7:25 PM
Exactly, Kyru.
Swith - Today at 7:25 PM
Question 3 Posed by Lord Vyse to N&I panelists: "What basics do you need before you can really get into role playing with your nation and the best way to go about getting them done?"
Gren - Today at 7:26 PM
I totally agree with Lamoni. II seemed like where all the action was, and felt like a good way to dip my toes in. Of course, intruding on two other people's RP probably wasn't the best way to do that. That's why I'm glad we have a mentor program now, to help ease mistakes like that.
Lamoni - Today at 7:29 PM
The first basic is to come up with even a barebones idea of what your nation is, and how it would interact with others. NS gives us a lot of freedom to work on things like this. You could be anything from a religiously fanatic nation, to an iron-fisted dictatorship, to a liberal democracy, and beyond. But it is important to have a concept for your nation that you like, and to flesh it out over time, which is known as worldbuilding. The second basic is good characters, which is also part of worldbuilding (deciding who is going to populate the world that you've created). Once you have those two things down, you can really start to interact with other nations in interesting ways that might even surprise you.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:30 PM
I, personally, tend to see two general "schools" of this, regarding Question #3. On the one hand, a lot of people learn best through experience; you see a lot of people recommending getting some fundamentals down, then just diving into roleplay. I think this can work; I think a lot of us first learned the ropes this way.
By the same token, I also often see players recommending others to get to learn the community first (in an OOC capacity), doing research, and worldbuilding a "working" foundation (as opposed to just a skeleton) before diving in. I think it fundamentally depends on how the player in question tends to learn as to which is "best."
I, personally, am generally of the latter school, but as some of our FT Mentors (and contributors) can tell you, I am a worldbuilding perfectionist and more than a bit anal retentive with regards to my concepts.
As for what basics I would simply not do without?
- A name, obviously.
- An outline of the history of the state in question; doesn't need to be long, but it need be there.
- A basic image of the culture you intend to create and roleplay.
- An idea of your "thematic leads," as it were; namely the characters you intend to introduce early on. Often these are the leaders of your state, though not necessarily.
Swith - Today at 7:31 PM
Quetion 4 Posed by Rhodevus: "Maybe as sort of a quick introductory question for those of use who don't have much experience talking to the mentors and mods: What is your favourite/Most Used Forum and why are you pulled to it more than the others?"
Maltropia - Today at 7:32 PM
I'd just like to add that, in a lot of ways, RP is an opportunity to create the basics of your nation. That's not a catch-22; you start writing and you come up with stuff as you go. You realise there are holes that need to be filled and you come up with something to fill them. Over time you realise you could've done something better - maybe you don't like having a president and eighteen prime ministers after all - and you rewrite. It's lovely to spend days planning your nation, but the best way to see what works is to put it into practice, even if there's not a whole lot there yet. It has to start somewhere: why not in a roleplay?
Swith - Today at 7:33 PM
[Also, a quick rundown of terminology, per request: II is International Incidents, NS is NationStates (the RP subforum). Together, they make up N&I. P2TM is Portal to the Multiverse. F7 is Forum 7. Together, they make up the non-nation RP and forum game area known as Fifth Dimension.]
Kyrusia - Today at 7:33 PM
Most used? Hah. Moderation. /unfunny joke
But I tend to use II chiefly, as noted before, but I do (and have done) a fair share in NS and F&NI. I also did some stuff in GE&T ages ago. Some of the P2TMers have also been trying to rope me in. :stuck_out_tongue:
Lamoni - Today at 7:33 PM
My most used forum would be II, followed by GE&T. II because of all the possibilities that it presents for interacting with others, and GE&T because I also like designing military equipment for NS.
Cer - Today at 7:34 PM
My favorite sub forum is P2TM. It gives me liberty to run whatever my heart is into at any given moment. My second favorite is NS (the subforum). I enjoy diplomacy games.
Zark - Today at 7:34 PM
My most used forum is definitely P2TM, quite simply because I enjoy roleplaying while not being necessarily constrained to a single genre/theme/canon, and P2TM is the place to go for that.
Zwangzug - Today at 7:36 PM
Most used: NS Sports. Like I said, I like having one little event to RP about at a time, that flows into a larger continuity/storyline, and the possibility to RP from the point of view of a character or group of characters who aren't necessarily the most important or prestigious in the country (but still worldbuilding my nation as I go along).
Giovenith - Today at 7:36 PM
P2TM, definitely. Like others said, there's more freedom there. Nationplay requires a bit of technical knowledge about how governments function, and I'm still too stupid to understand how Sports actually works - real life or RP!
Swith - Today at 7:36 PM
Question 5 Pitched via PM to our NS Sports Panelists: "What is NS Sports? Is it role play, or is it fantasy sports? Does RP happen there?"
Kyrusia - Today at 7:37 PM
It's voodoo! xP
Swith - Today at 7:37 PM
(
)Giovenith - Today at 7:37 PM
(What an appropriate transition :stuck_out_tongue: )
Zwangzug - Today at 7:37 PM
Hi! It's roleplay about (usually RL) sports taking place in NS countries, based on the results of a weighted random number generator.
Lamoni - Today at 7:38 PM
And it can be quite fun, too.
Zwangzug - Today at 7:38 PM
(I'll be giving more detailed thread/panel later in the week to hopefully answer more questions.)
Swith - Today at 7:39 PM
Question 6 posed by Ard_Rí "How do you keep RP interesting without the interactivity or hard statistics of a game? After all the only real progress you make is determined by what you say you make. How do you stop RP from getting stale when there's no challenge to really achieving something?"
Zwangzug - Today at 7:39 PM
But yes, the roleplay that happens is usually based on the results of the sports, like an article about a football match or a character-based introspection of an Olympic runner.
sorry, go ahead :smiley:
Swith - Today at 7:39 PM
(It's all good, Zwang. I've advised them to hunt you down via PM if they want more details.)(edited)
Zark - Today at 7:43 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't say a priori that there's "no challenge to really achieving something" in a roleplay. This is something that depends on the roleplay's OP. If the OP provides hurdles for the players and their characters (or nations, given the case) to overcome, thus creating tension, a roleplay can remain interesting despite the lack of hard statistics. Conversely, a videogame that is too easy might not be able to maintain a player's interest even despite the hard statistics and such. I believe it's all a matter of how it's handled. It is up to the OP to come up with situations and create tension in their roleplay.
Cer - Today at 7:43 PM
From a P2TM standpoint, you keep your RP interesting by keeping your players interested. All games have some hard stats to them (even if it's just a character app). Expand upon it by allowing characters to grow. Give your players challenges to aid in that growth. Design stories that intrigue them. Communication with your players is key. Gauge their interest often, and don't be afraid to ask them if they want more out of something, or less of certain elements.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:43 PM
This question (#6) will depend on who you ask and their playstyle, I imagine. Even so: one can reach goals and achieve them without hard statistics; I also feel interactivity is a basic pre-requisite of roleplaying on NationStates (excusing things like one-shorts and short-stories). Roleplaying is, fundamentally, a collaborative piece of fiction; sometimes that includes competitive elements, but not always.
As for me, personally, it has a lot to do with setting reasonable limits for your concepts, maintaining balance, reaching compromise with others, and being consistent with regards to the internal strictures you apply to your concept. I feel that largely goes for any tech level or board.
It's true, players can just say they have and accomplish whatever, but what is the actual fun in that? For me, the build-up, development, and hurdles are a part of the fun; the writing of that, for me, is the interesting bit. The writing of that, also, tends to account for a justification of the accomplishment (or failure). Plot, in my view, tends to dictate all.
Giovenith - Today at 7:44 PM
This is a pretty tricky question to answer, because a lot of it boils down to just what kind of person you are and what sorts of interests you already have. Not everybody is predisposed to games or media involving set rules of interaction or statistics (such as video games or tabletops) in the first place. For me, I was a bookworm growing up, not a gamer, so I innately have some understanding and appreciation for the more fluid, abstract form of entertainment based in story-telling and human thinking rather than counting and tool strategy.
Swith - Today at 7:47 PM
Question 7 Posed by Essexia - "Quite often, I've noticed that I spend a lot more time thinking about how I should RP, rather than typing out an RP itself. I keep thinking of things like "how would my country's politicians talk to each other" or "what would a diplomatic letter look like." Are there some tips so I can get out of this cycle where I'm spending much more time looking for examples to base my writing off of, and just actually start writing?"
Giovenith - Today at 7:49 PM
The most obvious way would be to actually put your theories into action with your friends. Of course, we don't always have the opportunity to just get up and do whatever kind of story we want. In that case, independent stories, or as they're more commonly known as "oneshots," are a great way for many people to spill ideas from their heads about their characters and worlds that aren't immediately applicable to the game. Oneshots are fun to write and fun to read for friends, and a great way to fine-tune your writing and characterization.
Lamoni - Today at 7:50 PM
I agree with Gio here, one shots can help you test things out until you're happy with them. As for how politicians would talk to each other, well, they are people just like anyone else. They just have duties that allow them to tell other people what to do.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:51 PM
Independent motivation is something I think every RPer struggles with at times - including self-doubt about themselves as an RPer in general. My advice? Just do it. Make yourself. Sit down and write, even if you end-up hating what you produce; you don't necessarily have to post it, but the practice will help you develop your own voice, style, and focus.
"Oneshots," short-story threads (for many players), or nation maintenance threads (generally just for the OP) are a good way to practice, experiment with concepts, and create/feed your concepts in general.
Swith - Today at 7:56 PM
Question 8 posed by Ched "When you begin to RP on a forum in NS, do you start with envisioning a character first? Or do you start with their home, like a nation, empire, or kingdom, etc? And why?"
Kyrusia - Today at 7:56 PM
Maltropia You're not. You're just suffering from delusions of grandeur. It's okay. We accept you nonetheless. We just blame you for everything.
Maltropia - Today at 7:57 PM
Kyrusia's answering questions out of turn! Someone call the mods!
Swith - Today at 7:57 PM
Kyrusia Follow-up Question: posed by Essexia "Can I ask what Kyrusia meant by "nation maintenance threads" ?"
Lamoni - Today at 7:58 PM
Either way is a perfectly valid way to start, Chad. Both the people and their nation are important, it is just a matter of where you want to start.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:58 PM
Q8: TBH? It varies. I've created RP threads, nations, etc. from a single scene or vibe I felt when conceptualizing. I think it depends on your personal style and what works for you. That's something you sort of just have to experiment with. My personal suggestion for this hurdle? Think-up a set of eyes - doesn't need to be a full character yet - and just write a scene from their daily life using that rough estimations and themes you do have in mind.
Giovenith - Today at 7:58 PM
Characters first. Places of origin only exist as they are because of the type of people who live there, so it's easier for me to create a person and then try to imagine what sort of place could have created that person. Once the place of origin is created though, often it takes on its own separate life and it can start to in turn have an influence on the character(s) and not just the other way around.
Zwangzug - Today at 7:58 PM
As a sports RPer this might not be typical, but I actually start some level in between. I have the idea of my country in mind, but then for a competition that I enter I often come up with a list of characters who are competing. Then I need to think about how well-established they'll be in the nation itself; will they be covered by the national propaganda newspaper? Or a ragtag bunch of misfits who get "quirky slice of life" profiles? Figuring out where they stand gives me my approach for the thread.
Kyrusia - Today at 7:59 PM
essexia Nation Maintenance Threads are, in effect, ways to just write about your nation without greater involvement in an RP thread. Often they are single viginettes into a character's life or some setting; other times they can have a series of stories.
In another way: it's an easy way to write something every day about your concepts without needing to dedicate your time to another RP thread.
Zark - Today at 8:00 PM
Re:Q8, I think it largely depends on the setting of the roleplay in question. If it is set in the modern world we all know and love/hate, then perhaps it may be less important to envision their home; their home already exists, and it is arguably more important to envision a character that fits their origin. In, say, a fantasy or sci-fi roleplay, I think either could work: you could try thinking of a character you like and then ponder what kind of environment could have produced a person like that, or alternatively, you could have an idea of a kingdom (or whatever) that you're rather fond of, develop it, and subsequently create characters to breathe life into that kingdom and represent it.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:00 PM
To add: they're ongoing threads, often with many viginettes. Not just a single viginette each time.
essexia forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=260509&sid=250c073027ff943b413d78ba90422304 Example of an NMT.(edited)
I see a typing frfs !
FRFS - Today at 8:02 PM
(#8) Personally, I usually work outside in, rather than inside out. I tend to think of the big picture first. And then work my way to the smaller details. Start with a large brush and then re-work things as I move along. Characters are something that I've always produced last, at one point in time they were usually afterthoughts to me (gasp), way behing story and setting. I find that setting the stage and knowing how the story moves along helps me think of how people would react and how they would grow and change through the story. And that helps me get into a mindset for characters. So for me getting together the setting and story, actually helps me think of characters.
Swith - Today at 8:02 PM
Question 9 Via PM and directed to Mods and Mentors. "What's it like being site staff? Do you scan forums for trouble? Do you work close with Mods. Like do Mods send people to you when [the player is] doing bad on forums? Is it a stressful thing? Or scary to mentor or mod people?"
Lamoni - Today at 8:04 PM
Well, mentors are not mods, and do not have mod powers. We do tend to work closely with the mod staff (Kyru in particular), and the mods will refer people who might need our help to us. Being a mentor is not all fun and games, but when you see someone who needed your help become a good and productive member of the roleplay community, there is a certain satisfaction. I've never come across anything during my time as a mentor that scared me, though.
Cer - Today at 8:05 PM
It isn't scary or stressful. To be an effective mentor, you have to be willing to listen and help, and to encourage people. Your own ego has to take the back burner. Your role is to help them become stronger writers, designers, players, and site members. You also have to know when you're in over your head. Nobody has all the answers. As we say in the Program, "We might not know the answer, but we know someone that does". It's a team effort.
Giovenith - Today at 8:06 PM
It's not so bad. It really just takes common sense, patience, and the ability to articulate yourself well. We usually know when we're outmatched though, and anything one might consider "scary" is usually the Mods' business.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:07 PM
Q9: "Yes."
Let's break this down: "What's it like being site staff?" - To be honest, I tend to not think about it this way; I think about it like I'm just any other player that has volunteered their time. That's, really, what all of us are.
"Do you scan forums for trouble?" - Yes. I generally have my head on a swivel, but not 24/7. We rely on reports from players a lot, both as Moderators and - to a lesser degree - as Mentors. While I wouldn't make a habit of bugging Mentors constantly, directing players you think may need some help to us isn't a bad idea at all.
"Do you work close with Mods. Like do Mods send people to you when [the player is] doing bad on forums?" - Working with Mods is a part of it, as you can see. Mods will, at times, point Mentors to threads or players where their expertise is better suited and when rules have not been broken. Mentors aren't Mods, but they work with us in close proximity fairly regularly. They also help point players to the rules and generally act as someone "working in the trenches," as it were.
"Is it a stressful thing? Or scary to mentor or mod people?" - It can be stressful, but I wouldn't say "scary." Stress is only ever as bad as you let it get; everyone is prone to that sometimes. It's good to remember that not only are we still players, but that despite our jackets we can still actually just play the game.
For me, personally, stress is a function of my time constantly being ever-more constricted. :stuck_out_tongue:
Swith - Today at 8:09 PM
(I'll add that, as Mentors, we're often put in a position of trust. Mentors do take your concerns seriously, and are not afraid to approach Mods to ask for advice on your behalf, though we urge you to file your own reports... even a GHR, if you don't want to make your report public... if you see OSRS rule-breaking.)
Kyrusia - Today at 8:10 PM
Quite.
Swith - Today at 8:10 PM
Question 10 via Alev - "How do you make a basic army without having to do hours of research before even your first roleplay, but not be completely unrealistic and therefor unfair?"
Gren - Today at 8:10 PM
I don't think its possible.
Lamoni - Today at 8:11 PM
Making a military with no knowledge of what a military is, what it does, and how it does it is simply not possible. Though that doesn't stop people from trying.
Gren - Today at 8:11 PM
Its one of those things where the options are mutually exclusive.
Swith - Today at 8:12 PM
[Tues July 11 7PM EST is War and Storytelling - a panel with Macabees, Lamoni, and a few others]
Giovenith - Today at 8:12 PM
You don't.
Don't mean to shoot it down, but the military isn't just a random assortment of guys in camo with guns. It's all about detailed organization and tactics. There is no conceivable way to run a realistic military without research.
Gren - Today at 8:12 PM
You either put in the work to make it decent, or you accept the fact that its going to be sub-par.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:12 PM
Q10: Define "realism."
If you're operating under the notion that "realism" is "emulating reality," it can be unfair. If you're using "realism" in the literary sense, it just need be "real" relative to the defined setting.
But regardless, even in FT - where particle beam weapons and naval engagements where each salvo is in the multi-megaton range is the norm - you still need a basic understanding of combat and its purpose and limitations to design your military. This means research, both onsite and off. "Pew Pew Laz0rs" or "TOWs" are, fundamentally, window dressing.
Remember: you get out what you put in.(edited)
Gren - Today at 8:12 PM
Personally, the research is half of the fun, at least for me.
Swith - Today at 8:13 PM
As this can be covered in greater detail later this week, would the panelists mind moving to the next question?
Lamoni - Today at 8:13 PM
And for me.
What is the next question, Swith?
Kyrusia - Today at 8:13 PM
^
Swith - Today at 8:13 PM
Question 11 posed by Eridani Imperium - "A question for the mentors, and a bone for Kyru: How do you handle religion IC? To what extent would you go to write up your own religion, and what would be some good sources for ideas, other than the Religion how-to thread we already have up?"
Lamoni - Today at 8:15 PM
I actually wrote a guide on "How to make a successful religion on NS." www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=759149 It all starts with what you want your religion to do, and how you want it to go about doing that.
Then? More research.
You're going to find that research is a really big thing on NS.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:16 PM
Q11: I doubt "extremes" alone would be an answer Swith would accept. But, even so: extremes.
That being said, I treat religion as a function of culture; they feed into (and off) one another. Depending on the degree of role religion plays in your society will help determine how broad (and deep) that impact is.
And, frankly, religion is my favorite bit. I could go on it for days, but that's true for any worldbuilding. The answer is, "You'll never be finished; you'll just get to a point it's workable."
As for inspiration: I tend to look to historical philosophies and perspectives. That also means research, namely into history, religious philosphy, theology, unique cultural traditions and mores, and how these have formed into unique cultures and impacted the politics of their time.
Giovenith - Today at 8:17 PM
I am fascinated by religion. It's interesting how the human need to understand and survive in their unique environments crafts a mythology. Religion is often a big influence on behavior. There is something of a danger when creating an imaginary religion, however, of making all its followers blind fanatics: consider religion in real life, where people have varying degrees of devotion and different interpretations about what they're commanded to do. Often it is in watching a character reconcile their religious beliefs with the situations they are presented with that is the best part of writing it.
Cer - Today at 8:17 PM
I use and tweak religion heavily in my non-nation games, and when crafting my nations. It depends on how dominant an element I want it to be. As the others have said - research is everything. The more you put in, the more you'll get out. Don't be afraid to explore.
Swith - Today at 8:19 PM
Question 12 posed by Ched - "When starting a character, where is the line drawn with what is decidedly too mundane or OP in that character's capabilities, what's the main factor that decides the acceptable "level of playing" for them? Same with nations in how too small is starting it very simple stupid or making it OP to start off with? Where should the balance be overall decided?"
Gren - Today at 8:21 PM
I say it depends on the setting.
Giovenith - Today at 8:22 PM
You should always try to start with what you're familiar with. If you've never played a superpowered character before, you might want to ease your way in with a normal human and draw from personal experience. Ultimately, no matter what the power level, all good characters and stories rely on the same basic foundations of common sense. As the saying goes, "You have to know the rules before you break them" - start with something less likely to cause damage, and as you master that, you'll be able to steadily climb up the latter and try bigger concepts.
FRFS - Today at 8:23 PM
Q12 : There are really two limitations you're gonna want to keep in mind. What is settled between you and whoever you are roleplaying with, internally in the RP. And also what is accepted by the community at large. That is why interaction in whatever community between the members of the community are so important. An agreeable level of abilities can be decided within the RP itself, internally by all parties involved. Which may fall in line with the community standards, or perhaps be bent for Plot. And in the community itself, overtime will develop natural rules and laws for abilities based off what has continually worked, and what hasn't.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:23 PM
Q12: In a lot of ways, it'll depend upon who you want to roleplay with. Your roleplay partners - and, more broadly, the community you are in as a whole - will tend to dictate what is or is not acceptable and help provide a litmus as to where you should probably adjust things (or not). I always tend to follow Hyperspatial Travel's litmus for stuff about this: "Ask. Ask everyone." Not just the new guy, not jus the guy you joined the thread with, but everyone you see.
Also, a lot need be said for your gut in situations such as this. If you're consistently concerned about something being OP, your gut is likely telling you something. Beyond that: again, everyone starts somewhere; work your way up and work into the field by learning.(edited)
Cer - Today at 8:24 PM
When in doubt, ask. There's no shame in admitting you're feeling lost or don't know how to do something. N&I, NS Sports, and P2TM all have open and vibrant communities willing to help you learn how to play new characters, concepts, etc.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:24 PM
^
Lamoni - Today at 8:24 PM
^
Giovenith - Today at 8:24 PM
^^
Kyrusia - Today at 8:24 PM
^^
Giovenith - Today at 8:25 PM
^^^
Lamoni - Today at 8:25 PM
^^^^
Gren - Today at 8:25 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Kyrusia - Today at 8:25 PM
We're all spammers at heart.
Giovenith - Today at 8:25 PM
(Your role models, ladies and gents.)
Maltropia - Today at 8:25 PM
8 July 2017: the day the world ran out of ^s.
Lamoni - Today at 8:26 PM
In case there was any doubt, mentors and mods are just like anyone else. We like to spam and have fun as much as anyone.
Swith - Today at 8:26 PM
Final Question
Question 13 Posed by Rhodevus - "What is something you would like to see more of in RP? Both in terms of what more players should do and in terms of styles/genres of RP."
Cer - Today at 8:26 PM
Keep adding imagination, regardless of where you haunt. Fresh ideas. :stuck_out_tongue:
Lamoni - Today at 8:27 PM
Never let the RP community go stale. Fresh ideas are always good.
Zwangzug - Today at 8:27 PM
Humor without cynicism! Not just taking yourself too seriously, not being edgy and too pretentious, but being clever and quickwitted like the game itself. Whether that takes the form of poking at the fourth wall, in-jokes with other users, or something else amusing, keep being optimistic and funny.
Zark - Today at 8:28 PM
In terms of what players should do, I believe cooperation is a big one. I know for a fact that there are some roleplays where cooperative posts are a commonplace thing, but in my experience the larger part of the community does not tend to practice collaborative posts, and I think they're a beautiful thing for setting a scene or playing out a particularly important event in a roleplay. Unrelatedly (and perhaps even on the opposite side of things
), I also enjoy one-shots, I think they should be more popular.In terms of styles and genres, well, there can never be enough sci-fantasy
Also shipping, there can never be enough shipping. nods
Kyrusia - Today at 8:28 PM
Q13: More thorough dedication to consistency and the maintaining of their individual "worlds." Nothing turns me off more than reading through something only to find the OP contradicting their own, self-espoused concepts left and right.
In terms of styles/genre? BANKING AND FINANCE! Kidding (sorta). Intrigue, though, to be honest. Intrigue and players thinking farther ahead for their concepts beyond just the next post. Sure, you'll always have to adjust, but some long-game planning can never hurt - it also can serve to add greater depth.
Gren - Today at 8:28 PM
What Zwang said. Stole the words from my mouth.
And what Kyru said.
Giovenith - Today at 8:29 PM
I'd like to see more dedication to community and to one's creations. A lot of people seem to forget that a good RP comes from continuous work, not just from how cool your app or OP post is. If you really want to shine, you have to get to know the people you're playing with and continue to build on what you've made, not just jump ship the second you get even slightly bored.
Kyrusia - Today at 8:29 PM
Also because I like spies and stabbing my "allies" in the back a lot. :smile:
Tilt - Today at 8:29 PM
Since this is the last question I don't feel so bad about chiming in unexpectedly. (Sudden data connection.) Just a chance to experience something new, either as a player or an OP.
Also hi everyone.
Swith - Today at 8:30 PM
Welcome, Tilt.
Tilt - Today at 8:30 PM
o/
Gren - Today at 8:30 PM
To piggyback on what Gio said, if you're with a good group, and the RP is right for that group, you shouldn't be getting bored in the first place.
Which isn't to say that you should jump ship if you find yourself getting bored.
Swith - Today at 8:30 PM
I believe we've run out of time. Let's give our panelist a chance to relax before the next session begins. We can take our conversation (and silly banter!) to #ns_mentors .(edited)
NS Roleplay Symposium 2017
TIME: COMPLETED
Thank you all for participating in today's panel! We look forward to seeing you back soon. The next, "Differences and Similarities: Fifth Dimension and N&I", starts in a half hour (9EST)
