[5:59 PM] Kyrusia:
**NS Roleplay Symposium 2017**
LOCATION: Symposium Hall
TOPIC: "OP Management and Running a Roleplay"
TIME: 7:00-8:30 PM Eastern, Tuesday, July 11th
Good evening and welcome to our OP Management and Running a Roleplay panel. I'm Kyru, your discussion moderator for this session.
This evening we'll be looking to answer questions and provide insight as to how to run a thread successfully, maintain order as an OP, manage information regarding roleplays, and overall executing a roleplay on the NationStates forums.
Panellists, please introduce yourselves and tell us which subforums you haunt. Also, please name your favorite animal!
I also thank guests for their patience. We will pull your questions from the #questions_chamber. To make it easier on us, please keep chatter to the main #ns_mentors channel. Thank you.
BEGIN
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[6:01 PM] Cer: Evening, all. I'm Cer, one of the P2TM Mentors. I haunt P2TM and, on occasion, NS. Favorite animal? Too many to choose from.
[6:01 PM] Ghant: Hello all! I'm Ghant, veteran N&I RPer specializing in PT and MT roleplays and world building. Favorite animal: does the Chubacabra count? :stuck_out_tongue:
[6:01 PM] Gren: I'm Gren, a P2TM resident. I post things, sometimes. Favorite animal is my girlfriend.
[6:02 PM] Maltropia: Heya folks; I'm Maltropia, a Senior N&I Mentor who can't come up with uniquely creative introductions on a nightly basis. I like turtles.
[6:03 PM] Agy: Heyo, I'm Agy, P2TM RPer. Hang out mostly in PL but also have done post-apocalyptic and FT RP in P2TM. Favorite animal: the owl
[6:05 PM] Zark: Hello there, I'm Zark (Zarkenis Ultima on the forums), I'm a P2TM roleplay mentor. My favorite animal is featured in both my avatar and my flag soooo (though dragons are a close runner up if we're accepting fantasy)
[6:05 PM] Kyrusia: Welcome, distinguished panelists (and occassional soulless husks)!
[6:05 PM] Kyrusia: Question #1 (PANEL-PROVIDED): Starting out with the basics here... Define "OP".
[6:06 PM] Cer: My soul smells like lemons.
OP is 'original poster'. Usually, the OP is also the game master (GM), or the person responsible for keeping the game moving plus all the administrative stuff for it.
[6:06 PM] Gren: Q1: Original or Opening Poster. Creates the RP. Owns the RP. Is the RP dictator.
[6:06 PM] Ghant: Q1: The OP of the thread can refer to two things, which are tied together. One is the first post of the thread, and the other is the author of said first post. The former is the Original Post, and the latter is the Original Poster. They are essentially the Gods of their respective threads, but try not to let that go to your head :stuck_out_tongue:(edited)
[6:07 PM] Agy: Question 1: OP is short-hand for "original poster" or, alternatively, "opening poster". It can also refer to the first post of an IC thread, the "original post" that all other posts are responding to. Regardless, when talking about OP's as individuals, they function as the primary moderators of the roleplays they run. OPs set up (sometimes with the help of others) the world, do all the administration stuff related to setting up the OOC and IC threads, approve applicants, and ensure that all involved in the game are having a good time and the plot is moving forward at a good pace.
[6:08 PM] Giovenith: Hello, it's me, Giovenith, of P2TM.
Q1: OP generally refers to Original Post, and Original Poster. It refers both to the first post of the IC which contains all the basic RP information as well as the person who wrote that post, who is considered the owner and leader of the RP.
[6:08 PM] Kyrusia: Question #2 (FOLLOW-UP): How would you define a good OP and Co-op team? (Asked by Ched.)
[6:08 PM] Zark: Q1: I think that's fairly simpe. An OP (shorthand for Openin Poster, not to be confused with Opening Post or OverPowered) is the person who creates and manages a thread. It applies equally to all forums, but on P2TM, an OP has added authority due to thread ownership, allowing them to, for example, ban people from their threads or ask for posts to be split.
The responsibilities of an OP are many, of course, but as for a definition I believe the above should work Should also note the alternate etymology provided by the others (Original instead of Opening).
[6:09 PM] Kyrusia: Co-OPs! Bane of Moderators everywhere! Remember, folks, as wonderful as they may be, thread ownership doesn't apply to them! :smile:
[6:09 PM] Gren: Q2: If people want to participate in the RP, and it lasts for an extended period, and the participants genuinely have fun, then the OP is good, as are the Co-OPs.
[6:10 PM] Giovenith: Q2: A good OP and Co-OP team understand that their job is primarily to ensure that the RP remains on track and that everyone is enjoying themselves. The RP does not exist to form an OP's personal imaginary playground. It's a bit like a restaurant or a hotel, your business is in making it pleasant to be there.
[6:10 PM] Agy: Question 2: A good OP and Co-op team is one whose synergy results in the roleplay being more fun for everyone involved and less work overall than if the OP proceeded alone. Generally, this means having similar ideas regarding what the core plot of the roleplay is, what appropriate and inappropriate behavior is, and how players are to be rewarded, punished, and criticized or lauded for their behavior. OPs and co-ops also should present a united front in decision-making for the RP, to avoid players taking sides and causing internal division if a controversial decision is made.
[6:11 PM] Cer: Q2 A, OP is as good as their game. The amount of time they invest into it, the better off the game will be. Quality OP understand how to balance elements and characters, and how to be reasonable and fair, and understands that players are the most important element in that game. A good CoOP usually balances the OP, frequently covering areas where the OP is weak, IMHO.
[6:12 PM] Ghant: Q2: A Good OP, in the sense of an OP post, is one that gives the reader a general idea of what's going on with the story at the onset. How it's beginning, what the stakes might be, a general idea of where it might go, etc. As far as OPs as people, a good OP is someone who beyond all other things is fair. Someone who is flexible, willing to listen, and is generally active in directing the thread. A CO-OP team is a situation where someone other than the actual thread OP is considered the OP. I've been in situations where I was the thread OP, but had a CO-OP, and they generally had a wide range of discretionary powers when it came to thread management, directing the story and keeping various players informed and in-line with the direction of the narrative. A good CO-OP is one that respects and cooperates with the thread OP and generally, doesn't challenge them openly or in such a way that can damage the collaborative nature of the thread.
[6:13 PM] Kyrusia: Question #3: Where and when should a OP have their limits within a RP, if there even is any? (Asked by Ched.)
[6:13 PM] Gren: Q3: I guess as long as it doesn't cross the PG-13 line or any other site rules.
[6:14 PM] Gren: Seems to be the only real restrictions I can think of.
[6:14 PM] Kyrusia: That's a good one, Gren! Let's not make the Moderators' job easier! I don't need another sheen of blood on this fur!
[6:14 PM] Giovenith: Q3: An OP should make sure that they're not nitpicking their players. Rules exist in order to maintain order in the RP, not to craft the world as the OP player personally envisions.
[6:14 PM] Ghant: Q3: Depends on the scope of the thread. If it's a thread that has a lot of player involvement, I think either some OOC rules, expectations and guidelines should be in the thread OP, or in an OOC companion thread. Transparency is important in a thread after all, and things like rules and expectations should be made clear to all prospective participants. Of course it goes without saying that general site rules and guidelines should be adhered to and enforced by the thread OP at all times.
[6:15 PM] Zark: Q3: I don't think an OP can be limited, per se. They are the owners of their threads, for one, and the owners of the intellectual property that is their RP, as well. Though like Gren said, they still cannot break the rules, and as was discussed in an earlier panel, they also cannot take control of another player's intellectual property, such as their characters, without their explicit permission.
Besides that, it's more of a matter of the OP being a reasonable person, than it is a matter of limits.
[6:15 PM] Agy: Question 3: As far as NS, OP hard limits involve following NS rules. You might be the thread's "god" but you certainly are not allowed to verbally harass or abuse your players, for example. As Gren mentioned, PG-13 content rules apply and OPs should in any case certainly NOT be looking to take advantage of players to fulfill their sexual or violent fantasies. Beyond that is OP discretion and we could have a million debates about what is and isn't appropriate OP behavior.
That being said, I concur with Giovenith's answer: an OP is there to guide, not to control, the story.
[6:15 PM] Cer: Q3 Each OP has their own style. Each game is unique. In a mechanics game, the OP sets pace and introduces each new round, for example. In a sandbox, the OP might fashion the world and then step back to give players a chance to define that setting better. It depends on a person's style and preference.
OP should not take the common "OP is god" rule to heart. Don't force players into things they don't want to play, for example. Listen to your players and adapt things to entertain them.
[6:16 PM] Kyrusia: Question #4: What are some good ways to bring recently apped characters into an ongoing RP, without either disrupting the goings-on in IC with the sudden arrival of new characters or making post-IC launch applicants wait so long that they consider leaving? (Asked by Brusia.)
[6:17 PM] Zark: Q4: Well this is a pretty tricky question, in the sense that it is very heavily dependent on the context of the roleplay in question. However, a general piece of advise I can give is to always have a plan on hand for this type of situation: it can't be an issue if you have taken it into account already. Besides that, perhaps provide them with a sort of side quest or something of the sort that can later lead to a smooth integration into the RP?
[6:18 PM] Agy: Question 4: Depends on the context of the RP. In a mission-based RP, new players might have their appetites whetted with training missions while the existing team finishes up whatever story they're on. In a sandbox RP, an OP or co-op's character(s) may invite new characters to do something to get them more integrated into the world while existing players figure out where the new characters fit in.
[6:19 PM] Gren: Q4: Finding some sort of reasonable break in the action to introduce the new characters. For instance, when I first started out in Excalibur Squadron, the unit was in between operations, so I didn't do much waiting. But later on, when more players arrived, they were sitting around interacting at the base, while the rest of us were doing the mission (and they provided some support for us as we were returning from said mission).
[6:19 PM] Giovenith: Q4: A good move I've known is to make sure that the IC has a kind of "base camp" for new characters to arrive in. A main place that makes sense for them to end up at regardless of who else is doing what. Though depending on the RP, there may be other ways to integrate the character, for example a "roaming the wilderness" sort of RP having the new character stumble onto the others during their travels. It all depends on context.
[6:19 PM] Ghant: Q4: I think a good RP has opportunities for new characters and new subplots to enter the story. They don't have to necessarily be brought right into the main goings-on, but rather could be on the periphery. For instance, characters could be reacting to the events of the thread from other places not directly presented in the thread. From there, they can potentially be brought into the main story arc, provided there's cooperation and understanding with the thread OP about various ways to go about bringing that to fruition. As far as waiting too long, well, that's why I think it's best to encourage players to write their subplots right away, and gradually bring them into the course of the main action, if you will.
[6:19 PM] Cer: Q4 I tend to work the characters in gently if the game itself is complex or contains a lot of unique worldbuild elements. My first step is to alert my group. See what players have a character free to assist. Often, I'll turn to one of my CoOP (they keep NPC as spares for this reason).
It can become tricky if the IC is in the middle of action. Sometimes a player needs to wait until a break in action would logically lead to an introduction/new element. That doesn't mean the player is left hanging. We encourage them to be active in our OOC. Keep them engaged. Focus on their character's traits and talents before it goes into play.
[6:19 PM] Agy: Question 4 (cont): In a railroaded RP where the OP has more plot control, you might even have the introduction of new characters be one of the big plot events that comes up for players to address. For example, in a gun-running RP, new characters might be picked up along the way as the team is being chased for their precious cargo in an action sequence.
[6:20 PM] Kyrusia: Question #5 (PANEL-PROVIDED): Name one simple, but killer mistake many first-time OPs make.(edited)
[6:20 PM] Cer: Q5 Other than vanish?
[6:20 PM] Ghant: Q5: Blurring the lines between OOC and IC, namely, posting OOC things in the IC thread.
[6:20 PM] Kyrusia: Now, now, Cer. Let's not hate on Houdini!
[6:21 PM] Zark: Q5: Not thinking their game through properly, really. Often a first-time OP might have been inspired by a movie, a new video game or something of the sort and try to make a roleplay game based on that, only to have the hype die down quickly.
[6:21 PM] Agy: Question 5: Having experienced this on non-NS RP forums: too little detail. Players are supposed to exercise their creative muscle but without something to go off of, there's little they can do. A one or two-sentence opening post is a great way to let other players know you either (1) have very little experience running a thought-out roleplay or (2) don't give enough of a shit to actually put effort into running your roleplay.
[6:21 PM] Gren: Q5: Not planning. You can see it alot, browing the forums. Most of the ones that didn't make it past the 1st page clearly didn't have any effort put into planning.
[6:22 PM] Giovenith: Q5: Many first time OPs don't so much want to run an RP as they want a captive audience. They want other characters to react with shock or amazement as the things they're doing instead of letting those characters actually have an effect on the story. This is especially true with newbie "evil" nations who basically want a group of people to gasp in horror at their edgy atrocities and express frustration at their inability to stop whatever Mary Sue is in charge of Dictatoria.
[6:23 PM] Cer: :stuck_out_tongue:
Many new-to-roleplaying OP think all they have to do is slap up a thread and call it a day. GMing means responsibility. You have to update your data, approve apps, answer questions, keep players engaged. You should have your game planned out long before you post your OOC thread. It's not a player's job to make your game for you.
Players are not video game elements for your entertainment. You are the console providing the game.
[6:23 PM] Maltropia: Q5: From the perspective of N&I RPs, where their first threads are diplomatic crises: overreacting. They announce something controversial, someone threatens sanctions and suddenly there are strategic bombers dropping nukes on the capital. You need to give a crisis time to escalate and an opportunity to be resolved. What makes interesting viewing doesn't necessarily make interesting reading or writing, and it's too easy to get caught in the trap of "blowing things up is dramatic!" and reflexively moving in that direction.
[6:23 PM] Kyrusia: Question #6: What styles of OPing should OPs steer away from most? (Asked by Ched. On a roll!)
[6:23 PM] Cer: Can you clarify what you mean by styles?
[6:24 PM] Kyrusia: @ched! Clarification!
[6:24 PM] Zark: Q6: Well a big one is the one that Gio's mentioned a lot already, the OP who just wants to be the star of the game instead of letting other players shine. Another is the lazy OP who does nothing to regulate his game and simply lets the players do whatever. I can't think of any others, I'm afraid, except perhaps being too railroady and controlling, that's not good either.
[6:24 PM] Agy: Question 6: Micro-managing. Much like with actual management, OPs should avoid trying to puppeteer their players into doing what they want for a "good show". Players have agency, that's the entire point of RPs being a collaborative experience, and trying to force them into a role they clearly don't think is a good or productive idea is basically an exercise in not understanding the point of roleplaying.
[6:25 PM] Kyrusia: Clarification: Clarifying, like styles to how one goes about running a story with their elements and devices /and of course running the OOC in a certain way
[6:25 PM] Ghant: Q6: One that I see quite often is baiting. Like what Maltropia said, often times you'll have a thread that has a very provocative thing happen in the OP that eggs on others to respond. I think that OPs meant to bait reactions tend to get overwhelming rather quickly, so it's best to focus more on the narrative merits of the subject material and how engaging / rewarding the resulting story would be for the OP, the writers and the readers.
[6:25 PM] Ghant: Q6: One that I see quite often is baiting. Like what Maltropia said, often times you'll have a thread that has a very provocative thing happen in the OP that eggs on others to respond. I think that OPs meant to bait reactions tend to get overwhelming rather quickly, so it's best to focus more on the narrative merits of the subject material and how engaging / rewarding the resulting story would be for the OP, the writers and the readers.
[6:27 PM] Cer: Q6 Yeah, it's best to avoid micro-managing. You're in charge of tracking the details. Give the players room to actually play though.
[6:27 PM] Gren: Q6: Unironic use of cliches. In addition to what Cer and Gio said.
[6:27 PM] Agy: Question 6: Ah, relating to story elements and devices - avoid being Michael Bay. Michael Bay is a hamfisted director who so thoroughly condescends his audience because he seems to think the average moviegoer is stupid and requires tired cliches, hot women in ripped clothes, stereotypes, and big explosions to keep attention.
Your audience has many brains. Use them. Introduce plot elements carefully and early, so they have time to develop. Avoid condescending both readers and players by letting them figure out solutions organically rather than writing them in and simply having the players fill their roles.
[6:28 PM] Maltropia: When you're the OP of a roleplay set in your world, whether it's the nation you've created, your fictional Star Trek ship or your international school, it can be very tempting to tell people "you can't do that" right off the bat. Yeah, there are limits to realism, but as Zark and Agy have said you shouldn't try to steer your players in one direction without giving them the chance to add to the story. If something can't work as proposed, work with them to shape it into something that can.
[6:28 PM] Giovenith: Q6: I've already talked about, "Look at me, look at me!" OPs. Another big one is to avoid trying to run your RP as if it's one big video game. This is a big issue with a lot of newbies. Repeat after me everyone: WRITTEN ROLEPLAYS ARE NOT VIDEO GAMES. WRITTEN ROLEPLAYS ARE NOT VIDEO GAMES.
In a video game, everything is about what you can collect, how many things you can shoot, the numbers on your stats, your progression level. While written-RPs do have use for such elements, unlike a video game, these elements are NOT the point of the game, they're there to balance out a story. Furthermore, a video game is controlled by a program that gives you instantaneous feedback; as a human being, there is no way that you can satisfyingly replicate this kind of feedback to another human. Don't try.
[6:29 PM] Kyrusia: Question #7: Is there something most OPs do that annoys you sometimes? (Asked by WPT.)
Also, note to panelists, we are approaching the end of our first half hour! You still can't leave!
[6:30 PM] Ghant: Q7: OOC comments / recommended listening links. One thing I need as a writer / reader is immersion, and I think that an IC thread should consist entirely of IC material. If you have OOC comments or things to add, I think it should be done in an OOC thread.
[6:30 PM] Gren: ^
[6:31 PM] Kyrusia: The wondrous ^! Oh how it doth simplify our shenanigans!
[6:31 PM] Zark: Q7: Eh, I'm a rather forgiving and tolerant fellow (mildly apathetic at times, even, but that's beside the point), so I can't think of much. But a big pet peeve is definitely the lazy OP I've mentioned already, the one that doesn't bother to keep an updated character list and doesn't really provide plot threads to follow or activities for players to carry out.
[6:31 PM] Agy: Question 7: I have to say, and I apologize to Cer in advance because you're the example I'm thinking of though plenty of people are guilty of this (myself included, I'm no god), that OPs making things up as they go along can be quite frustrating when one is really intensely into a story. This is because oftentimes, and I've noticed that I do this myself frequently, when you make shit up on-the-fly it doesn't necessarily 100% connect what's going on. And that confuses players, and that makes players distrustful or angry when it happens frequently enough.
I'm not saying you have to 100% plot out what's going on, but having a framework that can react at least on a basic level to players going off-the-rails is important if player choice is a consideration in your RP.
[6:31 PM] Giovenith: Q7: The only things that most OPs due to bug me is stuff outside of their control, such as being too busy to transition the day or mediate a dispute. I'm understanding of this though.(edited)
[6:32 PM] Cer: Q7 The Spineless approach. These OP will take on anyone that applies. They don't put their foot down on behavior. It isn't that they're noobs. They don't want to offend, or they think their game will die if they're seen as "mean". What they don't understand is that players are counting on them to provide a stable environment. You might loose good players if the OP is weak. The game will die.
[6:32 PM] Kyrusia: Well that's amazingly relevant, Cer!
[6:33 PM] Cer: Agy, I'm not offended. That's actually my biggest frustration as an OP. Due to the way that game is set up, we have to do a lot on the fly. "Think fast, Cer, we just threw you a curve grenade!"
[6:33 PM] Cer: It is?
[6:33 PM] Kyrusia: It is!
[6:33 PM] Cer: You all know I'm half asleep, right? :smile: Be kind.
[6:34 PM] Gren: Q7: That is pretty irritating, and I've seen it happen, just like that. And I've seen good OPs block the obviously weak apps, and the RP continued to flourish.
[6:35 PM] Maltropia: Q7: I can't really respond as to "most OPs" because that's too much of a blanket term when there's such a wonderful diversity of writers out there, but I have to say that too many people (and this often includes me) stop too soon. They write three pages, or three paragraphs, or three lines - whatever it is that they write - and then decide that that's enough plot advancement; that's enough detail. Read it again. Re-read it. Figure out what it's missing. Add some detail. Add some more text. Push things forward. Don't be content with a passable post, give your players more to engage with.
[6:35 PM] Kyrusia: Question #8: What's one thing as an OP you would immediately put your foot down on happening in the IC? (Asked by Ched. MULTIKILL!)
[6:35 PM] Kyrusia: See? Relevant!
[6:35 PM] Maltropia: Anything Kyrusia tries to post.
[6:35 PM] Maltropia: Pow, not a senior Mentor anymore.
[6:36 PM] Kyrusia: You said it! Not I!
[6:36 PM] Agy: Question 8: OOC feuds bleeding into the IC. Full stop. If that shit gets personal, the IC will quickly fill with blood (and/or guts, depending on how violent of an RP this is). Keep it in the OOC, and if it bleeds in STOP and address it immediately.
6:36 PM] Giovenith: Q8: Someone doing something to another character without their player's permission. Especially something like harming/killing the character or trying to force a sexual encounter.
[6:36 PM] Zark: Q8: In the IC? Breaking of the NS rules, obviously. Breaking of RPing etiquette as well (godmodding or metagaming). Besides that, I think most things that would warrant putting your foot down immediately would probably have to do with the OOC as well.
[6:36 PM] Kyrusia: Godmodding. Always a no-no!
[6:37 PM] Ghant: Q8: Anytime a player wants to do something ICly for OOC reasons. For instance, I was running a thread involving a character that I knew a certain player involved in the thread didn't like, and they contacted me about wanting to devise a plot to murder said character. I found the motivation and the reasoning to be somewhat meta, so I objected to it rather quickly.
[6:37 PM] Zark: I should also note that in some instances, controlling another player's character or using OOC information might be justified, if it was discussed between the involved players and the OP ahead of time.
[6:38 PM] Cer: Q8 God help the poor schmuck that violates the OSRS and gets my game shut down while I'm offline. Dishonor on you, dishonor on your ancestors, dishonor on your cow.
I kid. I put my foot down on trifling behavior. Players have to understand that my OOC isn't a place for shitposting. (Yeah, I said it.) This isn't because I don't want players to have fun. It's that I have to think of an entire group, and what does or does not offend the majority of that group. Things that skirt the OSRS do get a frown as well.
[6:39 PM] Cer: (There's a different between banter and teasing and shitposting, also.)
[6:39 PM] Maltropia: To extend a bit on Ghant's comment: a player using OOC information (e.g. knowing another player's long-term goals for his character) to influence how things develop with respect to that in a way that doesn't fit.
[6:39 PM] Gren: Q8: I agree with Cer on the shitposting. Its called shitposting for a reason. I'd also stomp out shit that lead to the May Massacre.
[6:39 PM] Cer: ^^^
[6:39 PM] Agy: ^^ Hear hear, sexual shit not welcome here! :stuck_out_tongue:
[6:40 PM] Kyrusia: And now a question for the romanticists... Timing? Timing.
Question #9: [At] what point do you ax the interaction between two lovey-dovey characters/players[?] (Asked by Eridani.)
[6:40 PM] Agy: Question 9: Violates PG-13 rules. Now if y'all can get creative about ensuring it doesn't, then I would say if it's inappropriate to the current tone of the RP.
Don't fuck when there's bombs raining around you. Just don't do it. Just stop. Where are your parents?
[6:40 PM] Gren: Q9: When it gets to the point that its overly distracting from the rest of the plot, and/or getting too close to crossing the line.
[6:41 PM] Ghant: Q9: Essentially when you reach a point in the interaction where either continued portrayal of the interaction is redundant, or when the reader can assume what happens next. For instance, "fade to black" is recommended once the reader can assume beyond a reasonable doubt that they're about to get down and dirty.
[6:41 PM] Zark: Q9: Right before it crosses into non-PG13 territory. Or, alternatively, as soon as it becomes disruptive to the roleplay (like in the case of a pair of lovey-dovey characters dominating the thread with their sap and detracting from everything else going on).
[6:41 PM] Cer: Heh. My pet peeve.
Q9 I keep an eye on my threads. If I see two players sequestering their characters in order to flirt or set up sexytimes (for pages on end) rather than being active in the game's story, it's a signal to me that those players are bored. Bored players need something exciting to deal with.
[6:41 PM] Giovenith: Q9: Crosses PG-13, it interferes with the RP, or the characters have been sequestered for an inordinate amount of time.
[6:41 PM] Zark: A pair or a trio or even more, mind, we don't discriminate here
[6:41 PM] Kyrusia: Believe me, folks. Nobody wants to read your porn. Certainly none of the Moderators. Don't give us easy hits!
[6:42 PM] Agy: Menage a trois, swingers, so on :stuck_out_tongue:
[6:42 PM] Ghant: Sexpose, as I call it, is a thing that has a time, a place, and a value that is seldom understood or utilized properly.
[6:42 PM] Cer: Keep in mind that romance is important to a story. Yes, allow your players to work on developing those. But in real life, romance has to fit in with the rest of life. We can't shut off the world entirely.
[6:42 PM] Zark: (people have tried)
[6:43 PM] Gren: Yell at them in the OOC to take it offsite.
[6:43 PM] Cer: (That's why I keep my harem online. Makes it easier.)
[6:43 PM] Agy: (That's not appropriate, Cer, members of your harem may be reading this)
[6:43 PM] Cer: (I know you are!)
[6:43 PM] Gren: (I was just about to say, we already were.)(edited)
[6:44 PM] Kyrusia: What has this become! Let's move on before someone breaks out the oxyacetylene torches they smuggled in!
[6:44 PM] Kyrusia: Question #10: How does one reconcile the difference in style and skill between, say, someone who posts one-liners very quickly, and someone who writes very long posts less often? Do post length requirements help even the playing field, or are there better ways to manage it? (Asked by MVC.)
[6:44 PM] Maltropia: Doesn't even have to wander into R-rated material. Once you've got two consecutive pages of meaningful glance-exchanging and no one's actually left the tavern yet to begin the quest, you know it's gone on too long. You can keep it going throughout the RP, you can allude to what goes on between posts, and if you really care your romantics can collaborate to produce one or two posts that keep that whole narrative together, but don't let people get 25 posts in a row of the stuff. Please.
[6:45 PM] Agy: You don't have to implicate people, Gre-
Question 10: Post length requirements, to me, provide gates where players who don't meet them simply don't join the RP. However, if players of different posting styles and skills are already in the RP, I feel like having workshops or exercises in the OOC to help develop skill and determine what length is appropriate (not too long or short) for posts goes a long way toward building IC cohesion.
You can't solve the problem without first acknowledging and figure out where everyone stands on it, and I think that's necessary in this case as well.
[6:45 PM] Zark: Q10: Depends on the style of the game. If it's sandbox, then I don't think there would be an issue in letting those two players continue (assuming you're tolerant of one-liners, anyway; I personally am not in most cases). In a more centered RP, a post lenght requirement is a good way to even the playing field and force people to strive to be better, though activity requirements are important as well.
[6:45 PM] Giovenith: Q10: If you've got a hold on your RP and what it's all about, there shouldn't be such radical differences in posting style to begin with. Generally the game should primarily involve one or the other. Make your decision in the beginning and enforce it.
[6:46 PM] Kyrusia: Appears a small, caprine imp has brought in a notice... Oh, yes, of course. Panelists: 45 minutes remain in our panel.
Thank you, Frank. Back to the pit with you.
[6:46 PM] Ghant: Q10: If you're doing a multi-faceted story with mini-arcs involved, then juggling writers of various skill levels and lengths of posts and time intervals is relatively easy. It's important though to keep things organized and encourage people to remain in their respective arcs. I generally don't like post length requirements, though it goes without saying that it should be at least a few paragraphs long, or maybe a page worth in Microsoft Word.
[6:46 PM] Cer: Q10 The OP determines the rough post content. Don't want one-liners? Ban them in your games, up front and in your first OOC post (the rules section).
You can and should give your expectations. Remind players that their fast posts are speeding up the story while people are offline. That offline player's character is frozen while conversations play out around him (or the setting changes).
Ask your players to state what they want from their fellow players as well. It's a group effort.
[6:46 PM] Gren: Q10: I don't think there is a way, other than the bare minimum of length requirements. If you require anything more than 3 or 4 lines, you'll quickly find most of that is of a very poor quality among people more comfortable with shorter posts than the quality of people comfortable with longer posts.
I say that as somebody who is a short poster. I tend to keep things as short as they need to be.
[6:47 PM] Agy: "It's a group effort"
"ALL POWER TO THE ROLEPLAYERS! DOWN WITH THE OPPRESSIVE OPs! NO MORE HIERARCHY. THREADS FOR ALL!"
[6:47 PM] Kyrusia: Oh, oh. Appears one of our panelists is attempting a small-scale insurrection. No worries. Frank. Yes, yes, I know I just sent you back to the pit, but bring the sparklers.
Yes. Aim for the face.
**NS Roleplay Symposium 2017**
LOCATION: Symposium Hall
TOPIC: "OP Management and Running a Roleplay"
TIME: 7:00-8:30 PM Eastern, Tuesday, July 11th
Good evening and welcome to our OP Management and Running a Roleplay panel. I'm Kyru, your discussion moderator for this session.
This evening we'll be looking to answer questions and provide insight as to how to run a thread successfully, maintain order as an OP, manage information regarding roleplays, and overall executing a roleplay on the NationStates forums.
Panellists, please introduce yourselves and tell us which subforums you haunt. Also, please name your favorite animal!
I also thank guests for their patience. We will pull your questions from the #questions_chamber. To make it easier on us, please keep chatter to the main #ns_mentors channel. Thank you.
BEGIN
::
[6:01 PM] Cer: Evening, all. I'm Cer, one of the P2TM Mentors. I haunt P2TM and, on occasion, NS. Favorite animal? Too many to choose from.
[6:01 PM] Ghant: Hello all! I'm Ghant, veteran N&I RPer specializing in PT and MT roleplays and world building. Favorite animal: does the Chubacabra count? :stuck_out_tongue:
[6:01 PM] Gren: I'm Gren, a P2TM resident. I post things, sometimes. Favorite animal is my girlfriend.
[6:02 PM] Maltropia: Heya folks; I'm Maltropia, a Senior N&I Mentor who can't come up with uniquely creative introductions on a nightly basis. I like turtles.
[6:03 PM] Agy: Heyo, I'm Agy, P2TM RPer. Hang out mostly in PL but also have done post-apocalyptic and FT RP in P2TM. Favorite animal: the owl
[6:05 PM] Zark: Hello there, I'm Zark (Zarkenis Ultima on the forums), I'm a P2TM roleplay mentor. My favorite animal is featured in both my avatar and my flag soooo (though dragons are a close runner up if we're accepting fantasy)
[6:05 PM] Kyrusia: Welcome, distinguished panelists (and occassional soulless husks)!
[6:05 PM] Kyrusia: Question #1 (PANEL-PROVIDED): Starting out with the basics here... Define "OP".
[6:06 PM] Cer: My soul smells like lemons.
OP is 'original poster'. Usually, the OP is also the game master (GM), or the person responsible for keeping the game moving plus all the administrative stuff for it.
[6:06 PM] Gren: Q1: Original or Opening Poster. Creates the RP. Owns the RP. Is the RP dictator.
[6:06 PM] Ghant: Q1: The OP of the thread can refer to two things, which are tied together. One is the first post of the thread, and the other is the author of said first post. The former is the Original Post, and the latter is the Original Poster. They are essentially the Gods of their respective threads, but try not to let that go to your head :stuck_out_tongue:(edited)
[6:07 PM] Agy: Question 1: OP is short-hand for "original poster" or, alternatively, "opening poster". It can also refer to the first post of an IC thread, the "original post" that all other posts are responding to. Regardless, when talking about OP's as individuals, they function as the primary moderators of the roleplays they run. OPs set up (sometimes with the help of others) the world, do all the administration stuff related to setting up the OOC and IC threads, approve applicants, and ensure that all involved in the game are having a good time and the plot is moving forward at a good pace.
[6:08 PM] Giovenith: Hello, it's me, Giovenith, of P2TM.
Q1: OP generally refers to Original Post, and Original Poster. It refers both to the first post of the IC which contains all the basic RP information as well as the person who wrote that post, who is considered the owner and leader of the RP.
[6:08 PM] Kyrusia: Question #2 (FOLLOW-UP): How would you define a good OP and Co-op team? (Asked by Ched.)
[6:08 PM] Zark: Q1: I think that's fairly simpe. An OP (shorthand for Openin Poster, not to be confused with Opening Post or OverPowered) is the person who creates and manages a thread. It applies equally to all forums, but on P2TM, an OP has added authority due to thread ownership, allowing them to, for example, ban people from their threads or ask for posts to be split.
The responsibilities of an OP are many, of course, but as for a definition I believe the above should work Should also note the alternate etymology provided by the others (Original instead of Opening).
[6:09 PM] Kyrusia: Co-OPs! Bane of Moderators everywhere! Remember, folks, as wonderful as they may be, thread ownership doesn't apply to them! :smile:
[6:09 PM] Gren: Q2: If people want to participate in the RP, and it lasts for an extended period, and the participants genuinely have fun, then the OP is good, as are the Co-OPs.
[6:10 PM] Giovenith: Q2: A good OP and Co-OP team understand that their job is primarily to ensure that the RP remains on track and that everyone is enjoying themselves. The RP does not exist to form an OP's personal imaginary playground. It's a bit like a restaurant or a hotel, your business is in making it pleasant to be there.
[6:10 PM] Agy: Question 2: A good OP and Co-op team is one whose synergy results in the roleplay being more fun for everyone involved and less work overall than if the OP proceeded alone. Generally, this means having similar ideas regarding what the core plot of the roleplay is, what appropriate and inappropriate behavior is, and how players are to be rewarded, punished, and criticized or lauded for their behavior. OPs and co-ops also should present a united front in decision-making for the RP, to avoid players taking sides and causing internal division if a controversial decision is made.
[6:11 PM] Cer: Q2 A, OP is as good as their game. The amount of time they invest into it, the better off the game will be. Quality OP understand how to balance elements and characters, and how to be reasonable and fair, and understands that players are the most important element in that game. A good CoOP usually balances the OP, frequently covering areas where the OP is weak, IMHO.
[6:12 PM] Ghant: Q2: A Good OP, in the sense of an OP post, is one that gives the reader a general idea of what's going on with the story at the onset. How it's beginning, what the stakes might be, a general idea of where it might go, etc. As far as OPs as people, a good OP is someone who beyond all other things is fair. Someone who is flexible, willing to listen, and is generally active in directing the thread. A CO-OP team is a situation where someone other than the actual thread OP is considered the OP. I've been in situations where I was the thread OP, but had a CO-OP, and they generally had a wide range of discretionary powers when it came to thread management, directing the story and keeping various players informed and in-line with the direction of the narrative. A good CO-OP is one that respects and cooperates with the thread OP and generally, doesn't challenge them openly or in such a way that can damage the collaborative nature of the thread.
[6:13 PM] Kyrusia: Question #3: Where and when should a OP have their limits within a RP, if there even is any? (Asked by Ched.)
[6:13 PM] Gren: Q3: I guess as long as it doesn't cross the PG-13 line or any other site rules.
[6:14 PM] Gren: Seems to be the only real restrictions I can think of.
[6:14 PM] Kyrusia: That's a good one, Gren! Let's not make the Moderators' job easier! I don't need another sheen of blood on this fur!
[6:14 PM] Giovenith: Q3: An OP should make sure that they're not nitpicking their players. Rules exist in order to maintain order in the RP, not to craft the world as the OP player personally envisions.
[6:14 PM] Ghant: Q3: Depends on the scope of the thread. If it's a thread that has a lot of player involvement, I think either some OOC rules, expectations and guidelines should be in the thread OP, or in an OOC companion thread. Transparency is important in a thread after all, and things like rules and expectations should be made clear to all prospective participants. Of course it goes without saying that general site rules and guidelines should be adhered to and enforced by the thread OP at all times.
[6:15 PM] Zark: Q3: I don't think an OP can be limited, per se. They are the owners of their threads, for one, and the owners of the intellectual property that is their RP, as well. Though like Gren said, they still cannot break the rules, and as was discussed in an earlier panel, they also cannot take control of another player's intellectual property, such as their characters, without their explicit permission.
Besides that, it's more of a matter of the OP being a reasonable person, than it is a matter of limits.
[6:15 PM] Agy: Question 3: As far as NS, OP hard limits involve following NS rules. You might be the thread's "god" but you certainly are not allowed to verbally harass or abuse your players, for example. As Gren mentioned, PG-13 content rules apply and OPs should in any case certainly NOT be looking to take advantage of players to fulfill their sexual or violent fantasies. Beyond that is OP discretion and we could have a million debates about what is and isn't appropriate OP behavior.
That being said, I concur with Giovenith's answer: an OP is there to guide, not to control, the story.
[6:15 PM] Cer: Q3 Each OP has their own style. Each game is unique. In a mechanics game, the OP sets pace and introduces each new round, for example. In a sandbox, the OP might fashion the world and then step back to give players a chance to define that setting better. It depends on a person's style and preference.
OP should not take the common "OP is god" rule to heart. Don't force players into things they don't want to play, for example. Listen to your players and adapt things to entertain them.
[6:16 PM] Kyrusia: Question #4: What are some good ways to bring recently apped characters into an ongoing RP, without either disrupting the goings-on in IC with the sudden arrival of new characters or making post-IC launch applicants wait so long that they consider leaving? (Asked by Brusia.)
[6:17 PM] Zark: Q4: Well this is a pretty tricky question, in the sense that it is very heavily dependent on the context of the roleplay in question. However, a general piece of advise I can give is to always have a plan on hand for this type of situation: it can't be an issue if you have taken it into account already. Besides that, perhaps provide them with a sort of side quest or something of the sort that can later lead to a smooth integration into the RP?
[6:18 PM] Agy: Question 4: Depends on the context of the RP. In a mission-based RP, new players might have their appetites whetted with training missions while the existing team finishes up whatever story they're on. In a sandbox RP, an OP or co-op's character(s) may invite new characters to do something to get them more integrated into the world while existing players figure out where the new characters fit in.
[6:19 PM] Gren: Q4: Finding some sort of reasonable break in the action to introduce the new characters. For instance, when I first started out in Excalibur Squadron, the unit was in between operations, so I didn't do much waiting. But later on, when more players arrived, they were sitting around interacting at the base, while the rest of us were doing the mission (and they provided some support for us as we were returning from said mission).
[6:19 PM] Giovenith: Q4: A good move I've known is to make sure that the IC has a kind of "base camp" for new characters to arrive in. A main place that makes sense for them to end up at regardless of who else is doing what. Though depending on the RP, there may be other ways to integrate the character, for example a "roaming the wilderness" sort of RP having the new character stumble onto the others during their travels. It all depends on context.
[6:19 PM] Ghant: Q4: I think a good RP has opportunities for new characters and new subplots to enter the story. They don't have to necessarily be brought right into the main goings-on, but rather could be on the periphery. For instance, characters could be reacting to the events of the thread from other places not directly presented in the thread. From there, they can potentially be brought into the main story arc, provided there's cooperation and understanding with the thread OP about various ways to go about bringing that to fruition. As far as waiting too long, well, that's why I think it's best to encourage players to write their subplots right away, and gradually bring them into the course of the main action, if you will.
[6:19 PM] Cer: Q4 I tend to work the characters in gently if the game itself is complex or contains a lot of unique worldbuild elements. My first step is to alert my group. See what players have a character free to assist. Often, I'll turn to one of my CoOP (they keep NPC as spares for this reason).
It can become tricky if the IC is in the middle of action. Sometimes a player needs to wait until a break in action would logically lead to an introduction/new element. That doesn't mean the player is left hanging. We encourage them to be active in our OOC. Keep them engaged. Focus on their character's traits and talents before it goes into play.
[6:19 PM] Agy: Question 4 (cont): In a railroaded RP where the OP has more plot control, you might even have the introduction of new characters be one of the big plot events that comes up for players to address. For example, in a gun-running RP, new characters might be picked up along the way as the team is being chased for their precious cargo in an action sequence.
[6:20 PM] Kyrusia: Question #5 (PANEL-PROVIDED): Name one simple, but killer mistake many first-time OPs make.(edited)
[6:20 PM] Cer: Q5 Other than vanish?
[6:20 PM] Ghant: Q5: Blurring the lines between OOC and IC, namely, posting OOC things in the IC thread.
[6:20 PM] Kyrusia: Now, now, Cer. Let's not hate on Houdini!
[6:21 PM] Zark: Q5: Not thinking their game through properly, really. Often a first-time OP might have been inspired by a movie, a new video game or something of the sort and try to make a roleplay game based on that, only to have the hype die down quickly.
[6:21 PM] Agy: Question 5: Having experienced this on non-NS RP forums: too little detail. Players are supposed to exercise their creative muscle but without something to go off of, there's little they can do. A one or two-sentence opening post is a great way to let other players know you either (1) have very little experience running a thought-out roleplay or (2) don't give enough of a shit to actually put effort into running your roleplay.
[6:21 PM] Gren: Q5: Not planning. You can see it alot, browing the forums. Most of the ones that didn't make it past the 1st page clearly didn't have any effort put into planning.
[6:22 PM] Giovenith: Q5: Many first time OPs don't so much want to run an RP as they want a captive audience. They want other characters to react with shock or amazement as the things they're doing instead of letting those characters actually have an effect on the story. This is especially true with newbie "evil" nations who basically want a group of people to gasp in horror at their edgy atrocities and express frustration at their inability to stop whatever Mary Sue is in charge of Dictatoria.
[6:23 PM] Cer: :stuck_out_tongue:
Many new-to-roleplaying OP think all they have to do is slap up a thread and call it a day. GMing means responsibility. You have to update your data, approve apps, answer questions, keep players engaged. You should have your game planned out long before you post your OOC thread. It's not a player's job to make your game for you.
Players are not video game elements for your entertainment. You are the console providing the game.
[6:23 PM] Maltropia: Q5: From the perspective of N&I RPs, where their first threads are diplomatic crises: overreacting. They announce something controversial, someone threatens sanctions and suddenly there are strategic bombers dropping nukes on the capital. You need to give a crisis time to escalate and an opportunity to be resolved. What makes interesting viewing doesn't necessarily make interesting reading or writing, and it's too easy to get caught in the trap of "blowing things up is dramatic!" and reflexively moving in that direction.
[6:23 PM] Kyrusia: Question #6: What styles of OPing should OPs steer away from most? (Asked by Ched. On a roll!)
[6:23 PM] Cer: Can you clarify what you mean by styles?
[6:24 PM] Kyrusia: @ched! Clarification!
[6:24 PM] Zark: Q6: Well a big one is the one that Gio's mentioned a lot already, the OP who just wants to be the star of the game instead of letting other players shine. Another is the lazy OP who does nothing to regulate his game and simply lets the players do whatever. I can't think of any others, I'm afraid, except perhaps being too railroady and controlling, that's not good either.
[6:24 PM] Agy: Question 6: Micro-managing. Much like with actual management, OPs should avoid trying to puppeteer their players into doing what they want for a "good show". Players have agency, that's the entire point of RPs being a collaborative experience, and trying to force them into a role they clearly don't think is a good or productive idea is basically an exercise in not understanding the point of roleplaying.
[6:25 PM] Kyrusia: Clarification: Clarifying, like styles to how one goes about running a story with their elements and devices /and of course running the OOC in a certain way
[6:25 PM] Ghant: Q6: One that I see quite often is baiting. Like what Maltropia said, often times you'll have a thread that has a very provocative thing happen in the OP that eggs on others to respond. I think that OPs meant to bait reactions tend to get overwhelming rather quickly, so it's best to focus more on the narrative merits of the subject material and how engaging / rewarding the resulting story would be for the OP, the writers and the readers.
[6:25 PM] Ghant: Q6: One that I see quite often is baiting. Like what Maltropia said, often times you'll have a thread that has a very provocative thing happen in the OP that eggs on others to respond. I think that OPs meant to bait reactions tend to get overwhelming rather quickly, so it's best to focus more on the narrative merits of the subject material and how engaging / rewarding the resulting story would be for the OP, the writers and the readers.
[6:27 PM] Cer: Q6 Yeah, it's best to avoid micro-managing. You're in charge of tracking the details. Give the players room to actually play though.
[6:27 PM] Gren: Q6: Unironic use of cliches. In addition to what Cer and Gio said.
[6:27 PM] Agy: Question 6: Ah, relating to story elements and devices - avoid being Michael Bay. Michael Bay is a hamfisted director who so thoroughly condescends his audience because he seems to think the average moviegoer is stupid and requires tired cliches, hot women in ripped clothes, stereotypes, and big explosions to keep attention.
Your audience has many brains. Use them. Introduce plot elements carefully and early, so they have time to develop. Avoid condescending both readers and players by letting them figure out solutions organically rather than writing them in and simply having the players fill their roles.
[6:28 PM] Maltropia: When you're the OP of a roleplay set in your world, whether it's the nation you've created, your fictional Star Trek ship or your international school, it can be very tempting to tell people "you can't do that" right off the bat. Yeah, there are limits to realism, but as Zark and Agy have said you shouldn't try to steer your players in one direction without giving them the chance to add to the story. If something can't work as proposed, work with them to shape it into something that can.
[6:28 PM] Giovenith: Q6: I've already talked about, "Look at me, look at me!" OPs. Another big one is to avoid trying to run your RP as if it's one big video game. This is a big issue with a lot of newbies. Repeat after me everyone: WRITTEN ROLEPLAYS ARE NOT VIDEO GAMES. WRITTEN ROLEPLAYS ARE NOT VIDEO GAMES.
In a video game, everything is about what you can collect, how many things you can shoot, the numbers on your stats, your progression level. While written-RPs do have use for such elements, unlike a video game, these elements are NOT the point of the game, they're there to balance out a story. Furthermore, a video game is controlled by a program that gives you instantaneous feedback; as a human being, there is no way that you can satisfyingly replicate this kind of feedback to another human. Don't try.
[6:29 PM] Kyrusia: Question #7: Is there something most OPs do that annoys you sometimes? (Asked by WPT.)
Also, note to panelists, we are approaching the end of our first half hour! You still can't leave!
[6:30 PM] Ghant: Q7: OOC comments / recommended listening links. One thing I need as a writer / reader is immersion, and I think that an IC thread should consist entirely of IC material. If you have OOC comments or things to add, I think it should be done in an OOC thread.
[6:30 PM] Gren: ^
[6:31 PM] Kyrusia: The wondrous ^! Oh how it doth simplify our shenanigans!
[6:31 PM] Zark: Q7: Eh, I'm a rather forgiving and tolerant fellow (mildly apathetic at times, even, but that's beside the point), so I can't think of much. But a big pet peeve is definitely the lazy OP I've mentioned already, the one that doesn't bother to keep an updated character list and doesn't really provide plot threads to follow or activities for players to carry out.
[6:31 PM] Agy: Question 7: I have to say, and I apologize to Cer in advance because you're the example I'm thinking of though plenty of people are guilty of this (myself included, I'm no god), that OPs making things up as they go along can be quite frustrating when one is really intensely into a story. This is because oftentimes, and I've noticed that I do this myself frequently, when you make shit up on-the-fly it doesn't necessarily 100% connect what's going on. And that confuses players, and that makes players distrustful or angry when it happens frequently enough.
I'm not saying you have to 100% plot out what's going on, but having a framework that can react at least on a basic level to players going off-the-rails is important if player choice is a consideration in your RP.
[6:31 PM] Giovenith: Q7: The only things that most OPs due to bug me is stuff outside of their control, such as being too busy to transition the day or mediate a dispute. I'm understanding of this though.(edited)
[6:32 PM] Cer: Q7 The Spineless approach. These OP will take on anyone that applies. They don't put their foot down on behavior. It isn't that they're noobs. They don't want to offend, or they think their game will die if they're seen as "mean". What they don't understand is that players are counting on them to provide a stable environment. You might loose good players if the OP is weak. The game will die.
[6:32 PM] Kyrusia: Well that's amazingly relevant, Cer!
[6:33 PM] Cer: Agy, I'm not offended. That's actually my biggest frustration as an OP. Due to the way that game is set up, we have to do a lot on the fly. "Think fast, Cer, we just threw you a curve grenade!"
[6:33 PM] Cer: It is?
[6:33 PM] Kyrusia: It is!
[6:33 PM] Cer: You all know I'm half asleep, right? :smile: Be kind.
[6:34 PM] Gren: Q7: That is pretty irritating, and I've seen it happen, just like that. And I've seen good OPs block the obviously weak apps, and the RP continued to flourish.
[6:35 PM] Maltropia: Q7: I can't really respond as to "most OPs" because that's too much of a blanket term when there's such a wonderful diversity of writers out there, but I have to say that too many people (and this often includes me) stop too soon. They write three pages, or three paragraphs, or three lines - whatever it is that they write - and then decide that that's enough plot advancement; that's enough detail. Read it again. Re-read it. Figure out what it's missing. Add some detail. Add some more text. Push things forward. Don't be content with a passable post, give your players more to engage with.
[6:35 PM] Kyrusia: Question #8: What's one thing as an OP you would immediately put your foot down on happening in the IC? (Asked by Ched. MULTIKILL!)
[6:35 PM] Kyrusia: See? Relevant!
[6:35 PM] Maltropia: Anything Kyrusia tries to post.
[6:35 PM] Maltropia: Pow, not a senior Mentor anymore.
[6:36 PM] Kyrusia: You said it! Not I!
[6:36 PM] Agy: Question 8: OOC feuds bleeding into the IC. Full stop. If that shit gets personal, the IC will quickly fill with blood (and/or guts, depending on how violent of an RP this is). Keep it in the OOC, and if it bleeds in STOP and address it immediately.
6:36 PM] Giovenith: Q8: Someone doing something to another character without their player's permission. Especially something like harming/killing the character or trying to force a sexual encounter.
[6:36 PM] Zark: Q8: In the IC? Breaking of the NS rules, obviously. Breaking of RPing etiquette as well (godmodding or metagaming). Besides that, I think most things that would warrant putting your foot down immediately would probably have to do with the OOC as well.
[6:36 PM] Kyrusia: Godmodding. Always a no-no!
[6:37 PM] Ghant: Q8: Anytime a player wants to do something ICly for OOC reasons. For instance, I was running a thread involving a character that I knew a certain player involved in the thread didn't like, and they contacted me about wanting to devise a plot to murder said character. I found the motivation and the reasoning to be somewhat meta, so I objected to it rather quickly.
[6:37 PM] Zark: I should also note that in some instances, controlling another player's character or using OOC information might be justified, if it was discussed between the involved players and the OP ahead of time.
[6:38 PM] Cer: Q8 God help the poor schmuck that violates the OSRS and gets my game shut down while I'm offline. Dishonor on you, dishonor on your ancestors, dishonor on your cow.
I kid. I put my foot down on trifling behavior. Players have to understand that my OOC isn't a place for shitposting. (Yeah, I said it.) This isn't because I don't want players to have fun. It's that I have to think of an entire group, and what does or does not offend the majority of that group. Things that skirt the OSRS do get a frown as well.
[6:39 PM] Cer: (There's a different between banter and teasing and shitposting, also.)
[6:39 PM] Maltropia: To extend a bit on Ghant's comment: a player using OOC information (e.g. knowing another player's long-term goals for his character) to influence how things develop with respect to that in a way that doesn't fit.
[6:39 PM] Gren: Q8: I agree with Cer on the shitposting. Its called shitposting for a reason. I'd also stomp out shit that lead to the May Massacre.
[6:39 PM] Cer: ^^^
[6:39 PM] Agy: ^^ Hear hear, sexual shit not welcome here! :stuck_out_tongue:
[6:40 PM] Kyrusia: And now a question for the romanticists... Timing? Timing.
Question #9: [At] what point do you ax the interaction between two lovey-dovey characters/players[?] (Asked by Eridani.)
[6:40 PM] Agy: Question 9: Violates PG-13 rules. Now if y'all can get creative about ensuring it doesn't, then I would say if it's inappropriate to the current tone of the RP.
Don't fuck when there's bombs raining around you. Just don't do it. Just stop. Where are your parents?
[6:40 PM] Gren: Q9: When it gets to the point that its overly distracting from the rest of the plot, and/or getting too close to crossing the line.
[6:41 PM] Ghant: Q9: Essentially when you reach a point in the interaction where either continued portrayal of the interaction is redundant, or when the reader can assume what happens next. For instance, "fade to black" is recommended once the reader can assume beyond a reasonable doubt that they're about to get down and dirty.
[6:41 PM] Zark: Q9: Right before it crosses into non-PG13 territory. Or, alternatively, as soon as it becomes disruptive to the roleplay (like in the case of a pair of lovey-dovey characters dominating the thread with their sap and detracting from everything else going on).
[6:41 PM] Cer: Heh. My pet peeve.
Q9 I keep an eye on my threads. If I see two players sequestering their characters in order to flirt or set up sexytimes (for pages on end) rather than being active in the game's story, it's a signal to me that those players are bored. Bored players need something exciting to deal with.
[6:41 PM] Giovenith: Q9: Crosses PG-13, it interferes with the RP, or the characters have been sequestered for an inordinate amount of time.
[6:41 PM] Zark: A pair or a trio or even more, mind, we don't discriminate here
[6:41 PM] Kyrusia: Believe me, folks. Nobody wants to read your porn. Certainly none of the Moderators. Don't give us easy hits!
[6:42 PM] Agy: Menage a trois, swingers, so on :stuck_out_tongue:
[6:42 PM] Ghant: Sexpose, as I call it, is a thing that has a time, a place, and a value that is seldom understood or utilized properly.
[6:42 PM] Cer: Keep in mind that romance is important to a story. Yes, allow your players to work on developing those. But in real life, romance has to fit in with the rest of life. We can't shut off the world entirely.
[6:42 PM] Zark: (people have tried)
[6:43 PM] Gren: Yell at them in the OOC to take it offsite.
[6:43 PM] Cer: (That's why I keep my harem online. Makes it easier.)
[6:43 PM] Agy: (That's not appropriate, Cer, members of your harem may be reading this)
[6:43 PM] Cer: (I know you are!)
[6:43 PM] Gren: (I was just about to say, we already were.)(edited)
[6:44 PM] Kyrusia: What has this become! Let's move on before someone breaks out the oxyacetylene torches they smuggled in!
[6:44 PM] Kyrusia: Question #10: How does one reconcile the difference in style and skill between, say, someone who posts one-liners very quickly, and someone who writes very long posts less often? Do post length requirements help even the playing field, or are there better ways to manage it? (Asked by MVC.)
[6:44 PM] Maltropia: Doesn't even have to wander into R-rated material. Once you've got two consecutive pages of meaningful glance-exchanging and no one's actually left the tavern yet to begin the quest, you know it's gone on too long. You can keep it going throughout the RP, you can allude to what goes on between posts, and if you really care your romantics can collaborate to produce one or two posts that keep that whole narrative together, but don't let people get 25 posts in a row of the stuff. Please.
[6:45 PM] Agy: You don't have to implicate people, Gre-
Question 10: Post length requirements, to me, provide gates where players who don't meet them simply don't join the RP. However, if players of different posting styles and skills are already in the RP, I feel like having workshops or exercises in the OOC to help develop skill and determine what length is appropriate (not too long or short) for posts goes a long way toward building IC cohesion.
You can't solve the problem without first acknowledging and figure out where everyone stands on it, and I think that's necessary in this case as well.
[6:45 PM] Zark: Q10: Depends on the style of the game. If it's sandbox, then I don't think there would be an issue in letting those two players continue (assuming you're tolerant of one-liners, anyway; I personally am not in most cases). In a more centered RP, a post lenght requirement is a good way to even the playing field and force people to strive to be better, though activity requirements are important as well.
[6:45 PM] Giovenith: Q10: If you've got a hold on your RP and what it's all about, there shouldn't be such radical differences in posting style to begin with. Generally the game should primarily involve one or the other. Make your decision in the beginning and enforce it.
[6:46 PM] Kyrusia: Appears a small, caprine imp has brought in a notice... Oh, yes, of course. Panelists: 45 minutes remain in our panel.
Thank you, Frank. Back to the pit with you.
[6:46 PM] Ghant: Q10: If you're doing a multi-faceted story with mini-arcs involved, then juggling writers of various skill levels and lengths of posts and time intervals is relatively easy. It's important though to keep things organized and encourage people to remain in their respective arcs. I generally don't like post length requirements, though it goes without saying that it should be at least a few paragraphs long, or maybe a page worth in Microsoft Word.
[6:46 PM] Cer: Q10 The OP determines the rough post content. Don't want one-liners? Ban them in your games, up front and in your first OOC post (the rules section).
You can and should give your expectations. Remind players that their fast posts are speeding up the story while people are offline. That offline player's character is frozen while conversations play out around him (or the setting changes).
Ask your players to state what they want from their fellow players as well. It's a group effort.
[6:46 PM] Gren: Q10: I don't think there is a way, other than the bare minimum of length requirements. If you require anything more than 3 or 4 lines, you'll quickly find most of that is of a very poor quality among people more comfortable with shorter posts than the quality of people comfortable with longer posts.
I say that as somebody who is a short poster. I tend to keep things as short as they need to be.
[6:47 PM] Agy: "It's a group effort"
"ALL POWER TO THE ROLEPLAYERS! DOWN WITH THE OPPRESSIVE OPs! NO MORE HIERARCHY. THREADS FOR ALL!"
[6:47 PM] Kyrusia: Oh, oh. Appears one of our panelists is attempting a small-scale insurrection. No worries. Frank. Yes, yes, I know I just sent you back to the pit, but bring the sparklers.
Yes. Aim for the face.